The Football.....

[User482]

Prior to the 80's we had some very talented British players who were let down by the fact it was ok at the time to spend all week in a pub
Since the advent of games consoles and " no ball games " signs sprouting out of every available piece of grass, we have not produced many players with world class skills
Its embarassing to watch the nation that gave the world Football, reduced to desperately defending the box against any country with a population of more than 50

1. Games consoles are widely available in Italy, Germany, Spain and France, who account for 5 of the 7 world cups since 1982.
2. England failed to qualify for the world cup in 1974 and 1978, and the Euros in 1972 and 1976.

 

[Sale Madrid]

So instead of the 32 year old Gerrard, we should have taken the 38 year old Scholes as Gerrard is too old??

My reference to Paul Scholes was to have a player like him in the side, in the middle of the park, dictating play and passing the ball. That said, Gerrard is too old on the basis that his gung ho, headless chicken, chasing shadows requires a young fit bloke. Scholes, even at 38, would have been better than Gerrard because he uses the ball better and can link play and bring other players into the game. He puts his foot on the ball and thinks - something Gerrard can't do. Zidane said the best player he has played against is Paul Scholes. Donkey's in the centre of midfield wont bring a team success - born out by England's poor showing at the Euro's.

 

[Sale Madrid]

This would be the Gerrard who single handedly managed to pick a team up from 3-0 to win the Champions League? Sure he's older but I doubt that's made him a worse captain. Perhaps some of the players could have actually played better. Not pointing any fingers but our wingers didn't exactly set the wings alight with speed and flair did they?

I'll hazard a guess that you're a United fan still smarting from the blue half taking your toy away.

I'm actually a Bolton fan so I hate all things red but I'm an England fan and the team is poo. I can't ever remember Gerrard having a good game for England - how many chances does the guy get. At international level he's pants and always has been. Top top international teams e.g. Germany, Spain, Brazil all have technically superb midfielders. Gerrard and Parker give 100% effort, blood and guts, lunging in, left right and centre. Why have we been knocked out - because that kind of football isn't good enough at international level. Gerrard and Parker were running about chasing shadows and 32 year old Pirlo was strolling around like he was out in the park with his kids. The reason is he's a skillful player who makes the ball do the work - Simples. Carrick would have been a much better bet in the middle and I know he's another red, but you must take the ball players to these tournaments and not the Parkers and the Gerrards. They are Ok in their club sides because those sides have skillful foreigners and the Parkers and Gerrads do the dirty things well, but together, in an England team? that's why we're out with hardly a kick in the last 75 minutes. A disgrace.

 

[RedRider]

This. We simply don't have players who are good enough to retain possession against the best teams - Scholes retired years ago. My criticism of Hodgson would be that, given the paucity of options available and low expectations generally, he might have given youth its head. Oh, and Henderson shouldn't be anywhere near the side.

Henderson showed this last season if there's one thing he's good at it's retaining possession through technique and simple, if unspectacular, passing. He's also young and by all accounts a hard-worker. In my opinion a lot of people made their minds up he was rubbish based on the fact he signed for an underperforming Liverpool for a whopping £18m and shortly afterwards played in a televised England u21`game during which he spent most of the time watching the ball flying over his head from defence on it's way to an opposition centre back.
It remains to be seen whether he becomes the player many intelligent supporters (and me), who've watched him week in and week out over the last season believe he can be but I for one am glad he got a taste of tournament football this summer.
The key for England is whether players with potential are protected by the manager despite the jibes of herd-following pundits and 'supporters' and whether the said manager sets his team up to play possession football to the strengths of such players. I'm not that hopeful.

 

[User482]

I've seen nothing to suggest that Henderson will fulfill those hopes...but you've seen him play more than I have. If England were truly keen on players with potential, we would have left James Milner in Manchester...

 

[Spartak]

@ Sale Madrid

Carrick ?

You are joking !

 

[RedRider]

I'm actually a Bolton fan so I hate all things red but I'm an England fan and the team is poo. I can't ever remember Gerrard having a good game for England - how many chances does the guy get. At international level he's pants and always has been. Top top international teams e.g. Germany, Spain, Brazil all have technically superb midfielders. Gerrard and Parker give 100% effort, blood and guts, lunging in, left right and centre. Why have we been knocked out - because that kind of football isn't good enough at international level. Gerrard and Parker were running about chasing shadows and 32 year old Pirlo was strolling around like he was out in the park with his kids. The reason is he's a skillful player who makes the ball do the work - Simples. Carrick would have been a much better bet in the middle and I know he's another red, but you must take the ball players to these tournaments and not the Parkers and the Gerrards. They are Ok in their club sides because those sides have skillful foreigners and the Parkers and Gerrads do the dirty things well, but together, in an England team? that's why we're out with hardly a kick in the last 75 minutes. A disgrace.

You don't think Gerrard has good technique? Can't agree there. I agree about Carrick btw but players like him have never been appreciated by your average England fan who refuse to rate players of other 'big' clubs and prefer to see a nutter with a bloody bandage round their head. Problem is we've had England manager after England manager who also seem to value kick and rush and backs to the wall far beyond simple passing where the ideal team should strike a balance. With Hodgson the tone is set to continue unless the old dog can change his leopard spots. Unfortunately there's no evidence he's capable of, or indeed sees any need in doing this.

 

[Sale Madrid]

You don't think Gerrard has good technique? Can't agree there. I agree about Carrick btw but players like him have never been appreciated by your average England fan who refuse to rate players of other 'big' clubs and prefer to see a nutter with a bloody bandage round their head. Problem is we've had England manager after England manager who also seem to value kick and rush and backs to the wall far beyond simple passing where the ideal team should strike a balance. With Hodgson the tone is set to continue unless the old dog can change his leopard spots. Unfortunately there's no evidence he's capable of, or indeed sees any need in doing this.

Just compare gerrards contribution to that of pirlo.

 

[martint235]

Just compare gerrards contribution to that of pirlo.

The comparison is easy. Pirlo is considered to be one of the best midfielders in the world (just watch how carefully Germany watch him) whilst Gerrard is considered one of the best midfielders in England. I don't think there are many English midfielders who could have done the job as well as Gerrard AND captained the side at the same time.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

A possible explanation as to why England are not as good as they think they ought to be, which has nothing to do with sofa's and health and safety....

UEFA A & PRO COACHES
SPAIN -------------------- 14,860
GERMANY ---------------- 6,570
FRANCE ------------------- 2,588
ITALY ----------------------- 1,810
NETH'NDS ----------------- 1,137
ENGLAND ----------------- 1,010
In England football is all about spirit and heart and 'wanting it' whilst in Europe it appears to be about science, tactics and skills coaching.

( Source here )

 

[RedRider]

Just compare gerrards contribution to that of pirlo.

Pirlo shone, Gerrard grafted.
Paul Scholes at his best, Xabi Alonso and Pirlo himself would've struggled in a similar way for a foothold in that England set up. I'm not a great student of the game but sometimes it's so obvious one doesn't need to be. It wasn't the players, it was the tactics that ceded possession. It's Roy's infexible philosophy, it's how he believes the game should be played. Believe me, I watched Liverpool play the same way when Roy was in charge even against teams with far inferior players.

How can any of England's midfielders shine as an attacking force when the ball flies from goalkeeper to centre forward time and again? How many times did Gerrard receive the ball in ten yards of space in the Italy half with passing options? Pirlo was in this situation virtually everytime he had possession.

Here's what Roy Hodgson said after the defeat: "I don't regard statistics, especially possession statistics, as being particularly important."

He's all for ceding possession and focussing on using the ball better when it eventually breaks for his teams. Throughout the group stage this is what happened and Gerrard DID use the ball well in those moments setting up three goals. This is entirely different to the way in which Italy played.

Here's what Gerrard said: "I don't look at stats too much unless it's clear, time and time again, that something's sticking out so obviously. It's one of the biggest points the management and coaching staff will have to look into. They have to analyse why we aren't keeping the ball better. Especially at this level because it's fundamental, and it's the key if you want to beat the big teams. You have to keep the ball, otherwise you work so hard without it the other side end up running you into the ground."

 

[Sale Madrid]

The comparison is easy. Pirlo is considered to be one of the best midfielders in the world (just watch how carefully Germany watch him) whilst Gerrard is considered one of the best midfielders in England. I don't think there are many English midfielders who could have done the job as well as Gerrard AND captained the side at the same time.

What job did Gerrard do so well ? He was in the middle of the park - he didn't run the game as a midfield captain should nor did he mark Pirlo out of the game. The England team hardly touched the ball in the las 75 minutes. As midfielder, experienced international and captain, he should be looking for the ball and demanding it. You may have a point that we are so poor as a nation not to be able to replace Gerrard with anything better. IMO to say he was completely ineffective in the Italy game is a vast understatement.

 

[RedRider]

@Sale Madrid. He wasn't in the middle of the park, he was hemmed in on the edge of his own penalty area. I agree he was ineffective there (apart from playing a role in the backs to the wall defence which claimed a clean sheet). You seem to hold Gerrard primarily responsible for England's defeat, what about the point I made in my last reply to you?

 

[Ajay]

Carrick turned his back on his country, as did his teammate Scholes.

Rooney was supposed to drop deeper to pick up Pirlo receiving the ball from his back four, but he was so out of shape he couldn't do the job, this forced Gerrard into a far more defensive role than was planned.

 

[rollinstok]

1. Games consoles are widely available in Italy, Germany, Spain and France, who account for 5 of the 7 world cups since 1982.
2. England failed to qualify for the world cup in 1974 and 1978, and the Euros in 1972 and 1976.

Still doesnt change the fact that almost anywhere you go in Europe if the schooling is done for the day you will see kids kicking a ball about. Wherever I've been it's a sure bet that if you stray from the tourist traps you will see kids and a football.
Our philosophy is wrong, we dont mind other peoples kids as long as we cant hear them playing.. hence the " no ball games " signs put up largely through the intolerance of neighbours. What do the kids do instead ? we reap what we sew. In mainland Europe its so different.