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jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Sue Me
That's the spirit!

Sadly, I agree with you, though I believe it could happen if proper proposals were made; "The Big Picture" is very much the opposite of that.

It is good to see that Liverpool are trying to do things properly - according to Transfermarkt the club has made a profit in 3 of the last 4 years, which is pretty impressive.
Tbh I never read the big picture proposal as have always been against the premier league being used as the bail out option......

and I do hope Liverpool keep doing the right thing and invest the right way and not let some fans get their way. Clubs need to be controlled better financially........we don’t want another Leeds, Bolton, Portsmouth, Wigan, Coventry...all ex premier league clubs that were run badly to try and get to the top quickly and without a sound financial footing to help them get there.

the only way is salary and spending caps......
 

AndyRM

XOXO
Location
North Shields
Some kind soul posted this on my team's football forum, saving the need to click on the Mail website.

An excellent take down of The Big Picture by Martin Samuel:

Manchester United and Liverpool's Project Big Picture is nothing but a disgusting Big Six power grab... Rick Parry is Faust in a Mickey Mouse tie and he thinks we're STUPID

Rick Parry helped destroy the fabric of English football once, and now he’s going for it again.

His alliance with Manchester United, Liverpool and any fellow travellers within the Big Six is the most flagrant, abusive and ruinous power grab the domestic game has seen since the formation of the Premier League with Parry as its chief executive close to 30 years ago. That put the power in the hands of 20 clubs.

Now Parry and the elite want this narrowed down to a cabal of six. They are promising all kinds of bungs and sweeteners to get their way, painting themselves as the saviours of the game, the friends of the little folk, but do not believe a single word of it.

This is about six clubs controlling the wealth and seizing the power, right down to deciding who gets into their competition. This is about closed shop protectionism that will end the Premier League as a vibrant competition. This is about getting your round in with another man’s money.

This is, in essence, every rotten, contemptuous, self-serving, destructive idea the likes of Manchester United and Liverpool have come up with across the last two decades, repurposed as a rescue package.

Project Big Picture? Far from saving our game, all it would do is reduce. Reduce what makes football fun. Reduce its unpredictability, reduce the excitement, reduce the chances for Wolves or Leicester or Aston Villa. Reduce the hope of a change of ownership at Newcastle. Reduce your chances of promotion. Reduce your hopes of success if you get there. Reduce, reduce, reduce.

Of course Parry supports it. He has no idea how to address the financial crisis in the EFL, so will cling to any lifebelt tossed his way. If it means selling out the League Cup, the Community Shield, 14 current Premier League clubs and any in the Championship with ambition, he’ll do it.

That is how desperate he is. He’s Faust, in a Mickey Mouse tie. And he thinks we’re stupid. They all do.

Take the proposed new superpowers, the nine longest-serving clubs in the Premier League, whose votes would count for more than the rest. That’s the big six, plus Everton, Southampton and West Ham.

Those nine clubs are to be afforded ‘long-term shareholder status’, would have unprecedented power, even able to veto new owners at other Premier League clubs, decide on the chief executive and amend rules and regulations. And maybe the six think the three will be flattered to be included.

Depends whether they can handle basic arithmetic. For what would be needed for vetoes and changes to processes is a two-thirds majority of long-term shareholders.

Ooh, what’s two-thirds of nine? Wouldn’t be six by any chance, would it? Everton, Southampton and West Ham wouldn’t be privileged members. They would be ridiculous patsies, carved up and cynically outvoted at every turn.

That is what Project Big Picture is. One big carve-up. Take wealth distribution, 50 per cent of which would now be divided on merit, rather than equally. But not real merit.

Some of the cut would be calculated over the last three years so if Manchester United or Liverpool had a bad season, it wouldn’t matter as much because other, more successful years would be taken into account.

At the moment central income ratio is capped at 1.7 to 1 between big and small; this might see it reach 4:1. And what’s fairer than a league in which the wealthiest get four times as much basic income as their rivals lower down?

The same with television revenue with clubs permitted to sell eight games on their own platforms. This would greatly harm the broadcast deal, with the loss of exclusivity, and that money could only be recouped if the PPV packages were hugely successful. And who is likelier to benefit there: Manchester United and Liverpool again, or Burnley and West Brom?

So, again, the elite clubs lose nothing, the smallest clubs get squeezed. The only time they are all treated the same is when handing out bungs to the EFL and FA to make it happen.

Paying £250million to the EFL and £100m to the FA, the clubs are equal. When voting, sharing television revenue, creaming off the profits of PPV, they are not.

The donations, the good causes, the infrastructure, they are all the sheep’s clothing, disguising the wolf. Everything here benefits the elite. Small clubs would lose two games’ revenue in an 18-team competition, plus the odd bonus League Cup fixture.

The elite? Nothing. Those gaps in revenue would quickly be filled by expanded European competitions and the revamped Club World Cup, the gulf growing ever wider.

This plan is not to be trusted — even the charitable aspects.

When Parry helped set up the Premier League, it was ostensibly to aid the England team. Soon, everyone knew the truth. Do not be fooled by this, either. Do not be fooled by the grassroots talk, the money for the women’s game, the £20 tickets for away fans — this is a power grab dressed up as reform, the closed shop reworked as opened-armed generosity.

And they want to tie the Premier League to UEFA’s financial fair play rules, too. Of course they do. They are stricter and unyielding.

Manchester United and Liverpool can usher in UEFA’s FFP — attached to revenue streams only available to the biggest and richest clubs — then that truly is the end for the likes of Leicester or Wolves challenging the status quo. And that is what terrifies them.

Not that another club like lovely Macclesfield might go bust. Aston Villa 7 Liverpool 2. Manchester United 1 Tottenham 6. That’s the waking nightmare, and it always has been. That they won’t be good enough to sustain their status.

That, like AC Milan in Italy, they will slip from relevance. So they want it all: the money and the control. They want to make the rules, shape the game, decide who gets what, who gets in. And Parry, once again, is their willing accomplice.

Just as he was in 1992 when, as chief executive of the fledgling Premier League, he helped alter a system that awarded 50 per cent of broadcast revenue to clubs outside the top tier — the second tier got 25 per cent, those below 12.5 per cent each — to one that benefited a small group and placed football on its road to ruin.

Only fools could not see through this, but in many ways, it is almost a positive. Project Big Picture is so transparent in its aims, so repulsively skewed towards the richest, so disgustedly naked in its protectionism that the howl of rejection and outrage should be deafening.

Under the guise of improving the economic outlook for all, it delivers the bulk of its money into the greasy mitts of an over-privileged, over-entitled elite. It fixes the game in favour of six clubs, while shifting the financial burden to the 14 straining every sinew to remain competitive.

It is a disgrace, the opposite of a solution, and deserves a pauper’s grave.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
But football shouldn’t be and isn’t a business like any other business.

I think it is and it should be.

You have to be careful what you wish for. Just look at America with their franchises and no relegation. The LA/Oakland Raiders have moved again, this time to Las Vegas, how can they maintain any credibility. imagine if Liverpool FC upped sticks and moved to Blackpool because it had better commercial potential.

Doesn't that provide "real" competition though? Hasn't the last 10 years provided 7 or 8 different Superbowl winners? And, any team can win it.
I don't think our way is any more "right" than theirs, that is the USA way and our way is just as unimaginable to them, who's going to fund an MLS club with mega start up $m's and maybe get relegated to the no money USL? Nobody.

I am a traditionalist in so much as I believe in the small clubs and local support, but they should believe in themselves, kids cannot just go to the big PL clubs, so there is huge opportunity if the clubs can go out and grab it....and stop whining about the injustice of it all. I believe in "B" teams too and think it is good for everybody, seen them often in Spain, I don't understand the reluctance to embrace them here, I don't see any down sides, it's not as if PL clubs are going to stop stockpiling talent.

I'd let the PL go completely, most of us are more interested in the FL anyway and the Championship will still be the 5th best league in the world, with a glut of famous old clubs but be free to market itself as such.
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Sue Me
Some EFL clubs will "disappear within five to six weeks" unless they get financial support, says Nigel Travis, chairman of League Two Leyton Orient.
He also said 'Project Big Picture' - a plan by Liverpool and Manchester United to reform the English football pyramid - was a "great proposal".


some people see the plan a lot different to others i see.........
 

Kempstonian

Has the memory of a goldfish
Location
Bedford
So we will be reduced to having only two trophies to aim for then, the League and the FA Cup? Season ticket holders will be getting less value for money if they are losing 2 home games and maybe a few League Cup games to go to. The League Cup is used by many top clubs as a chance to give younger players and reserves a few games a season and is a chance for lower league clubs to earn money from a successful cup run.

Not sure I like the idea of this plan.
 

Kempstonian

Has the memory of a goldfish
Location
Bedford
Btw the League cup is an excellent chance for lower league teams to earn a few bob by progressing to the later stages (and occasionally even winning it), because the big clubs don't rate it and rarely field strong teams when they play lower division clubs. Doing away with it would hit lower teams far more than Premiership clubs. I don't suppose many of them care about that though.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Some EFL clubs will "disappear within five to six weeks" unless they get financial support, says Nigel Travis, chairman of League Two Leyton Orient.
He also said 'Project Big Picture' - a plan by Liverpool and Manchester United to reform the English football pyramid - was a "great proposal".


some people see the plan a lot different to others i see.........

Oh come on! Only a blind man cannot see the proposals for what they are, not for the common good that's for sure. It's no surprise that foreign owned sporting businesses (that long ceased to be British football clubs) are behind this.
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Sue Me
Oh come on! Only a blind man cannot see the proposals for what they are, not for the common good that's for sure. It's no surprise that foreign owned sporting businesses (that long ceased to be British football clubs) are behind this.
Well according to today’s news 85% of EFL clubs support the proposals........so that’s a fair few blind people
 

vickster

Legendary Member
This was the alert I got, BBC reporting maybe more nuanced
https://news.sky.com/story/project-...eague-clubs-unanimously-reject-plans-12104052

Plans from Liverpool and Manchester United to radically reform England's top flight of football have been unanimously rejected by all 20
Premier League clubs....
The Premier League had earlier said in its statement on Wednesday: "All 20 Premier League clubs today unanimously agreed that Project Big Picture will not be endorsed or pursued by the Premier League, or The FA.

Unanimous is pretty clear :okay: They agreed to ditch it clearly
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Sue Me
This was the alert I got, BBC reporting maybe more nuanced
https://news.sky.com/story/project-...eague-clubs-unanimously-reject-plans-12104052

Plans from Liverpool and Manchester United to radically reform England's top flight of football have been unanimously rejected by all 20
Premier League clubs....
The Premier League had earlier said in its statement on Wednesday: "All 20 Premier League clubs today unanimously agreed that Project Big Picture will not be endorsed or pursued by the Premier League, or The FA.

Unanimous is pretty clear :okay: They agreed to ditch it clearly
It needs 14 out the 20 side to vote against it......your 1st post linked to the bbc, now your linking to the sky story, who’s saving face???
 
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