gds58
Über Member
- Location
- Colchester
it's exactly the same thing!!
The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread
- Thread starter Shaun
- Start date
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- Tags
- helmet helmet debate
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Profpointy
Legendary Member
That's fine and dandy, but have you seen the Australian experience? Somewhat surprisingly, the stats show no net benefit post-compulsion, once they take account of (reduced) cycle numbers. What's going on? It genuinely seems there is not net benefit overall of people wearing helmets, odd though that may seen. Specific instances of accidents you personally have seen don't change the numbers overall. A poker example is where I've seen a pair of Aces beaten lots of times, but it's still the best hand to be dealt.Of course, I'm happy to believe helmets help (at least a bit) sometimes, but given the FACT that they don't help overall, they must be doing harm other times. If I may introduce another anecdote - I was knocked off my bike and landed on my shoulder, which hurt ! My had can't have missed the floor by more than, what, thickness of a helmet. If I'd been wearing one, I'd have hit my head, likely wrenching my neck, and probably be on here saying the helmet save my life. Of course, this is a one off, but it does illustrate there's more to it than the obvious.
I, like you, used to wear one - before they were trendy - and thought it foolish not to. Having looked into it, my view has changed. You have not looked into it seems, and are dismissing those who have as idiots.
Mugshot
Cracking a solo.
My mates a copper, his names Paul, perhaps you know him. Anyway, he uses the same tactic with me. He'll mention how many times he's had to attend incidents with particularly bad head injuries and he has also experienced some colleagues that have been injured and unfortunately killed whilst cycling.
It does start to go a little pear shaped when it turns out that the VAST majority of the head injury incidents didn't involve a bicycle at all and ALL his injured and the deceased colleagues too were wearing helmets.
Go figure huh?
glenn forger
Guest
It's your spinal cord. You boast that you volunteer to drastically increase your head area, thus exposing yourself to rotational forces that could snap your spine like a stale Twiglet. Don't come running to us when it happens.
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
I take it all these incidents and accidents involve all sorts of scenarios such as pedestrian falls, late night brawls, road traffic accidents, people slipping on ice and snow and people falling off a bicycle? I suppose you're advocating a protective helmet for all these scenarios... or is it just one?
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I understand the Aussies did not have the right base statistics to do a decent comparison. I am not convinced by any current research that supports one position or the other. I suspect that his has led to some wearing helmets and some not. People go with this base instincts and their experience of the environment that they are in.
glenn forger
Guest
30 years' worth? How many cyclist fatalities involving head injuries are you claiming to have attended? It's astonishingly unlikely that you have ever encountered anywhere near enough to draw conclusions. So, as you describe it as a "simple hard fact", how many?
newfhouse
Resolutely on topic
I'm sorry to hear that, it must be upsetting, although you do seem to have found a coping mechanism that includes blaming dead or injured "morons".
Science > anecdote
Thanks, I will. Mind how you go.
I can top that with some 40 years of experience in the field of first aid, search and rescue, working with casualty departments and other fields.. Also seeing many many incidents and accidents and being witness to the horrific results of having not worn a helmet. The vast majority of which were related to drink, mainly pedestrians and only the odd cyclist
Not scientific just simple hard facts cyclists suffer fewer head injuries than any other pedestrians or car drivers / passengers, something proven in ALL the cohort studies of head injuries
So you still need to explain why you have only expressed this as support and evidence for a helmet as cyclists and you are happy to accept all the horrific results of pedestrians and car drivers having not worn a helmet.
As before if you are going to play emotive blackmail you have to explain why these injuries are only relevant in one minority, and the other head injuries do not need to be prevented by the same simple measures
Profpointy
Legendary Member
I looked it up - apparently there were 126 thousand full-time-equivalent police officers in March 2015, thus on average maybe 3 in a thousand officers will see a dead cyclist in any one year. Assuming evenly distributed and 3 attend a given incident. Even if officers who deal with this kind of thing see 10 times as many as the average, that still only 1 in 30 officers (who deal with this kind of thing) will see a dead cyclist per year. Maybe my ratios are wrong, but maybe a good ball park
Also if you look at statistics there would have been far more pedestrian and vehicle head injuries, only choosing to consider the cyclists and forget the greater numbers is ludicrous
The "simple hard fact" is that ALL head injuries are tragic, and to only single out a minority as being the victims, ignoring the rest is equally bizarre
(Edited) Profpointy posted whilst I was writing)
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
I don't think @gds58 is claiming to have seen X amount of fatalities, just 'horrific' head injuries. I'd be astonished if all of them were cycle related.
Which is the sheer hypocrisy of the "wear a helmet or be a vegetable" agenda
gds58
Über Member
- Location
- Colchester
I haven't a clue how many, I wasn't into counting them. Also, I didn't state that it was only 'fatalaties' which thankfully were much less commonplace than non fatal injuries. In many fatal incidents with a cyclist, the injuries causing death are to other parts of the body/organs etc where a helmet or not would have made little difference to the outcome. It is more the case of the less severe and non fatal accidents/collisions where many of the head injuries sustained could have been prevented by the wearing of a helmet, and yes I've seen a lot.
I'm done with this now, like I've said - your choice, so you choose. Whatever you choose won't affect me now. Thanks for your input though.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
that's kind of where Gregory and I were going with the point really
