The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[mjr]

If I wear a helmet there is more chance of me crashing. Presumably, because I subconciously think I am safe in my little polystyrene bubble and dont take as much care as I do when I wear my Buff.

What a crock...

Insult it if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that there's something counterintuitive going on with helmets and we don't really know why yet. It could be that so-called risk compensation - I certainly noticed myself making poorer decisions when I was wearing a helmet occasionally - or it could be something else.

The bottom line is that the best evidence suggests significant increases in crash helmet wearing have not correlated with significant reductions in injuries overall - found yet again recently, this time in Canada. Why?

If one accepts that a helmet offers some protection in the crash types they're designed/tested for (which I do), then there must be some other drawback counteracting that. I suspect that helmets both make crashes more likely (maybe risk compensation, maybe other judgment impairment) and exacerbate the injuries against which they don't protect (either a type beyond the design or if they are poorly-fitted), but that's beyond the limits of the research done so far. Hopefully some more research (ideally useful, not another Thompson et al or a TRL hatchet-for-hire) will be along soon

 

[steveindenmark]

Mjray. Im not insulting you but the idea that wearing a helmet causes you to have more accidents just sounds like balderdash to me. What about the other 20,000 times I did wear a helmet and nothing happened. How do we account for that?

Like I said in my OP. I have no idea if a helmet can save your life and it appears even the boffins dont know either. But as usual there are people who want to argue the toss regardless. Even if they dont themselves.

All I was saying is that on this occasion my helmet saved me significant damage to my face. The damage may even have occurred if I did not have a visor, as the visor took the brunt of the scrapes. And that opens another can of worms.

Im not suggesting everyone goes out and buys a helmet. I dont care one way or another. I was just sharing an experience.

 

[Poacher]

Probably like most non-wearers I coexist happily with wearers. Occasionally worry about the government pushing compulsion if there are too many of you.

I also generally coexist happily with wearers. I've never felt compelled to ask, very loudly, "Why are you wearing a helmet?" or call someone "a f***ing idiot" because of their choice. Unfortunately this is not always reciprocated.

 

[MontyVeda]

My last helmet discussion went...

Them. "Why don't you wear a helmet?"
Me. "Personal choice"
Them. "I think that's stupid!"
Me. "Well that sensible discussion came to an abrupt end didn't it."
Them. [rolled eyes]

...I've come to the feeling that (on the rare occasion) when people* want to talk about cycle helmets, they're just trolling me.

*in the real world

 

[benb]

I remember an incident when I was cycling with the family along one of those converted railway lines, so 100% traffic free, and about as low risk as you can get.
A group came the other way, and the bloke in front started angrily tapping his helmet at us. I must admit I told him in no uncertain terms that it was none of his business.

 

[benb]

We're the other members of his group children? He might have spent some time making them wear helmets because he thought that the right thing to do, and saw you as undermining his good work.

Nope, all adults, the only kids were in my group. And even if there were kids with him, he would still have been a dick.

 

[benb]

Think of him as a pre-Damascene Saul.

I'll just continue to think of him as an ignorant interfering fotze.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

We're the other members of his group children? He might have spent some time making them wear helmets because he thought that the right thing to do, ...

GC

 

[mjr]

Mjray. Im not insulting you but the idea that wearing a helmet causes you to have more accidents just sounds like balderdash to me. What about the other 20,000 times I did wear a helmet and nothing happened. How do we account for that?

Crashes are rather rare, that's how we account for that.

I know it sounds like balderdash, but do you agree there must be something strange going on to undermine the protection offered by helmets? And while all the suggested reasons are unlikely and I actually would rather it was some of the other reasons, I feel that an increased crash rate/severity profile seems the most likely of the unlikely explanations, because the helmet-wearing third of UK cyclists appear to post about more crashes and worse crashes than the non-wearing two-thirds, don't they?

Im not suggesting everyone goes out and buys a helmet. I dont care one way or another. I was just sharing an experience.

Sure and thank you. Part of the problem is that the me-I'll-wear-but-you-please-yourself crowd are still helping irrational helmet marketing and eroding our strongest barrier against helmet laws. Sometimes, like this, the wear-helmets-more conclusion seems to contradict the experience of one's worst crash being while wearing one, unless you think helmets can't possibly have any effect on crash frequency/severity, but then we should see a significant benefit at the population level...

 

[mickle]

Now I wish I had known this earlier.

If I wear a helmet there is more chance of me crashing. Presumably, because I subconciously think I am safe in my little polystyrene bubble and dont take as much care as I do when I wear my Buff.

What a crock...

It's a 'thing', it's called 'risk compensation'. Look it up..

 

[glenn forger]

The point, stresses Adams, is that drivers who feel safe may actually increase the risk that they pose to other drivers, bicyclists, pedestrians and their own passengers (while an average of 80% of drivers buckle up, only 68% of their rear-seat passengers do). And risk compensation is hardly confined to the act of driving a car. Think of a trapeze artist, suggests Adams, or a rock climber, motorcyclist or college kid on a hot date. Add some safety equipment to the equation — a net, rope, helmet or a condom respectively — and the person may try maneuvers that he or she would otherwise consider foolish. In the case of seat belts, instead of a simple, straightforward reduction in deaths, the end result is actually a more complicated redistribution of risk and fatalities.


For the sake of argument, offers Adams, imagine how it might affect the behavior of drivers if a sharp stake were mounted in the middle of the steering wheel? Or if the bumper were packed with explosives. Perverse, yes, but it certainly provides a vivid example of how a perception of risk could modify behavior.

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1564465,00.html

 

[Profpointy]

Regarding risk.compensation, easy to explain if you take an extreme example - let's say rock climbing without a rope. For me, or nearly anyone, to do this, I have to be very confident that I'm well inside.my ability. Give me a rope, and I'll quite happily do something right up to the edge of grip

It's not a big stretch of the imagination that I'd cycle a little bit bit faster or riskily in a helmet or drive less conservatively in a modern solid car and a seat belt.

 

[mjr]

It's not a big stretch of the imagination that I'd cycle a little bit bit faster or riskily in a helmet or drive less conservatively in a modern solid car and a seat belt.

The effect of the car on the driver may explain why I only remember being cut up by a motorist in a vintage vehicle once, while I've had enough near-misses with White Van Man (usually a company works van or hire van) to feel the reputation is deserved - even if you limit it to rides near or on the route of vintage car rallies, WVMs have still inflicted more near-misses

 

[benb]

I would've just tapped my head back at him – two can play at that tapping game! – but it's as well you let him know that his evangelism isn't welcome. People like you do the heavy lifting for people like me, who for the most part can no longer be bothered to be bothered. (Except for the occasional helmet thread post.)

I've got your back.

 

[Brandane]

@snorri has just posted this video clip in another thread. It illustrates fairly well what happens when you go over the handlebars of your bike. Natural reaction is to put a hand down to protect your head. Initially it looks as if his head is heading for the path, but surprise surprise, his head comes nowhere near hitting the ground. If he had to go to hospital with a broken wrist/collar bone, there would no doubt be somebody there telling him that his helmet saved his life .