The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[srw]

Here is the sad story of Tony Magdi who, after an altercation, died from a brain injury resulting from hitting his head on the pavement when he was floored by just one punch. Perhaps we should also wear a helmet all the time, just in case.

According to the ONS stats on cause of death (referenced on another thread), 99 people were stabbed to death and 103 died by assault by unspecified means. I think that means we should always wear body armour and a stab-proof vest.

Oh, and 219 died by inhalation and ingestion of food causing obstruction of the respiratory tract. That's a ban on supermarkets, then.

 

[totallyfixed]

There are many variable in a crash. In my circumstances I landed flat on my back on two out of three crashes. As this occurred at a reasonable speed I fail to see how my head would have failed to impact a hard, flat surface, with or without a helmet.

If you can explain otherwise please do expand.

I can't, I am not even going to try. Since helmets were introduced head injuries have increased, why is that? Of course, it may be down to sheer numbers, nevertheless this question intrigues me more than any other. In over 200,000 miles of cycling I have hit my head twice as an adult, probably more as a child, on one of those occasions if I had been wearing a helmet it is likely my head would have been forced back at a high rate of knots. In the other accident I went down on a roundabout after losing control on spilt diesel, in an attempt to save my bike I slid into the kerb at fairly high speed and hit my head, the result was a cut and a lump. A helmet would undoubtably saved me from those injuries, what it would not have done is stopped my brain from the sudden acceleration inside my skull, it may also have "grabbed" the road surface during the slide and twisted my neck.
More often than not when I ride with helmeted cyclists they have a tale to tell about how their helmet saved them from more serious injury, yet neither I nor my better half have experience of this, so what is going on?
So, purely anecdotal, how many times have you hit your head whilst cycling? Answers from helmet wearers and non wearers please, I am not interested in the outcome and what may or may not have happened, just how often you have hit your head.

 

[Poacher]

I totally 100% agree that the not wearing or wearing of helmets should, and must, remain a personal choice.

Personally I have read all the evidence, and factored in the facts that I have had three bike crashes in my life, two resulting in my head hitting the road within the limits on my helmet design. I therefore, until absolute convincing proof either way, will continue to wear one.

Note: I have walked, and driven, many many more miles than I have cycled and fallen / crashed on more than one occasion. To the best of my knowledge, on a grand total of zero occasions from these has my head hit a hard surface.

You may argue that my my head being enlarged by my helmet resulted in the impact however I counter-argue that due to both case me landing flat on my back at speed would have resulted in head impact anyway.

That is my experience in my (close to) 5 decades of life. Your's may differ and so may your choice. Life and let life.

I totally 100% agree that the wearing or not wearing of helmets should, and must, remain a personal choice.

My most recent serious cycling accident occurred about 7 years ago when a pedestrian who had been standing and gazing in the opposite direction suddenly ran in front of me, still looking in the opposite direction. I shouted "Look out!", braked (from ~18mph) and tried to swerve round him, but he carried on, making a collision impossible to avoid. Contact was with my my left hand, which was squeezing the brake lever. The bars were forced round, the front wheel collapsed, and I pivoted on my right elbow, the bike flew over me, and I landed flat on my back with feet pointing in the direction I'd been going. My head did not make contact with the ground; if I'd been wearing a helmet, I'm sure it would have, and I'd be one of the multitudes proclaiming to all the ignorant unconverted that a helmet had saved my life.

However, if I'd been wearing a helmet in an accident about 22 years ago, the more recent accident would not have taken place. How so? I hit a patch of spilled diesel on a fast right hand bend at about 25mph. The raised grid that ripped my jacket to shreds and damaged my right shoulder would in all likelihood have snagged a helmet. I'll leave you to imagine the potential consequences of that one.

Note: As a pedestrian, I have hit my head on a hard surface on many occasions, including slipping and banging my head on a tree when aged 9 (~6 stitches), being hit by a solid wooden boom when my brother chinese gybed his 30' trimaran (KO, concussion), walking into projecting rock in a tunnel while levada walking in Madeira, and contact with numerous low beams, one of which had a projecting nail. God how I wished I'd worn a helmet!

That is my experience in my 6 decades and a bit of life. Yours may differ and so may your choice. Live and let live.

 

[Mugshot]

[QUOTE 3999020, member: 45"]Let's not get carried away chaps.

Wearing a skate helmet in a skate park offers a different level of protection in an environment with a different and more consistent level of risk.[/QUOTE]

The post was tagging a couple of Facebook friends that occasionally commute on push bikes, here's the comment;

Omg I so agree (Name removed).... (Name removed) I have told u often enough....if this don't make u see sense then I give up lol x

The person posting, tagging and aiming the article was not referring to anybody in a skate park, just anybody on a bike or board.

One of the people tagged is big into his BMX racing, here's a pic of him.

 

[Mugshot]

So, purely anecdotal, how many times have you hit your head whilst cycling? Answers from helmet wearers and non wearers please, I am not interested in the outcome and what may or may not have happened, just how often you have hit your head.

Non wearer - Hand on heart I do not ever remember hitting my head (and no I don't think that is due to memory loss because I hit my head) Various broken bones and skinned flesh but not once can I recall an occasion when I've hit my head.
To pick up on a point you made in a couple of posts I don't seem to fall off very often either, I'm not suggesting higher skill levels or less risk taking or that I'm not as clumsy, but when I read posts about how many times people have hit their heads (sometimes in relatively short time frames) it does occur to me that I haven't even fallen off that many times whilst cycling never mind suffered a head injury as a consequence.

 

[martint235]

Don't normally wear a helmet. In 25 years I've hit my head twice, once unhelmeted against aforementioned truck and once helmeted when on Herne Hill Velodrome (helmet mandatory).

Also as previously mentioned, my ribs have suffered far more (I seem to land on the bars rib first) but not hearing "You're mad cycling to work without body armour"

 

[User33236]

As much as people claim that wearing a helmet protected them from certain death) or at least serious injury) it's interesting to read the opposite from @Poacher hinting that, had they been wearing a helmet in an accident 22 years ago, it would have injured them to such a state that they would have been unable to ride thus preventing an accident many years later.

As in the 'a helmet saved my life' cases it's all a bit hypothetical and such claims have little or no foundation.

 

[Poacher]

As much as people claim that wearing a helmet protected them from certain death) or at least serious injury) it's interesting to read the opposite from @Poacher hinting that, had they been wearing a helmet in an accident 22 years ago, it would have injured them to such a state that they would have been unable to ride thus preventing and accident many years later.

As in the 'a helmet saved my life' cases it's all a bit hypothetical and such claims have little or no foundation.

As you say, the conclusions are rather hypothetical, but the fact remains that in the more recent incident I landed flat on my back at a considerable speed (the pedestrian was so close that I'd probably only slowed to about 15mph from the 18mph when he darted in front of me) without my head making any contact with the ground, in direct contrast with your helmeted experience.

 

[Mugshot]

[QUOTE 3999100, member: 45"]Thanks. So can the assumption be made that you respectfully summarised the difference between BMX racing and pootling to the shops?[/QUOTE]
If the assumption can be made that you're referring to different activities carrying differing levels of risk you may I assume that I have agreed with you previously.

Respectfully yours
Mugshot

 

[MontyVeda]

...
So, purely anecdotal, how many times have you hit your head whilst cycling? Answers from helmet wearers and non wearers please, I am not interested in the outcome and what may or may not have happened, just how often you have hit your head.

As a grown up... once. I was about 16-17, the carrier bag i had slung over the bars got caught between the fork and spokes and sent me over the bars face first. I may have banged my head a few times when i was learning to ride too, but i can't remember that far back. I did have plenty of offs when i was lad though (practising to become a stunt man) and recall being patched up a few times, but never on my noggin.

The last four times i've come off (slipped on ice or wet paving), I've landed on either my hands, arms, side and shoulder, but presumably i did that thing we learn as toddlers and instinctively managed to stop my head from impacting.

 

[Mugshot]

[QUOTE 3999159, member: 45"]Yes, I just wondered whether you'd done anything about it.

If this place is anything to go by, the only conversations that can be had about helmets are slanging matches or throwing second- and third-level arguments at each other.

We all know what the score is. The best way to make any progress is to do a Chris Boardman and keep things simple and factual.[/QUOTE]
What are you thinking I could do? I posted a picture of someone riding a BMX fully geared up in support of your argument, is that a start?
I don't know that there's anybody here saying you should never ever wear a helmet or that they can never be of use in any circumstances.

 

[User33236]

As you say, the conclusions are rather hypothetical, but the fact remains that in the more recent incident I landed flat on my back at a considerable speed (the pedestrian was so close that I'd probably only slowed to about 15mph from the 18mph when he darted in front of me) without my head making any contact with the ground, in direct contrast with your helmeted experience.

I don't dispute for one second your experience in your recent crash and yes it does differ from mine. No two accidents are identical.

It all happened so quickly I could not say for sure what occurred but I was fortunate enough to obtain CCTV footage of my crash and, having watched it zoomed in and frame by frame, I see that I landed square on my back. Due to the angle at which I hit it would have been impossible for me to have prevented a head strike, helmet or not. I was also fortunate, from clothing evidence, that I came to an immediate stop upon landing.

As I say that was my experience and it probably saved me from a bump at least. Did it save my life? Absolutely not lol.

 

[glenn forger]

As a grown up... once. I was about 16-17, the carrier bag i had slung over the bars got caught between the fork and spokes and sent me over the bars face first. I may have banged my head a few times when i was learning to ride too, but i can't remember that far back. I did have plenty of offs when i was lad though (practising to become a stunt man) and recall being patched up a few times, but never on my noggin.

The last four times i've come off (slipped on ice or wet paving), I've landed on either my hands, arms, side and shoulder, but presumably i did that thing we learn as toddlers and instinctively managed to stop my head from impacting.

I reckon we're approaching this from the wrong angle, wait till the effect of the plastic bag ban on cyclists' head injuries.

 

[MontyVeda]

I don't seem to fall off my bike nearly as often as some people on here do, for whatever reason who knows. But the answer to your question is - twice. Once on black ice, when the side of my head struck the road quite hard, but I was wearing a woolly hat and I was fine. The other time, my top teeth almost went through my bottom lip as I hit my face on the car that smidsy'd me, but what I was wearing on my head that time was obviously completely irrelevant. HTH.

Like you... i always wear my trusty woolly* hat when black ice is likely

*although it's actually fleecy

 

[Mugshot]

[QUOTE 3999190, member: 45"]skate helmets are very different to road bike helmets.[/QUOTE]
Do we need to ask why that is?
[QUOTE 3999190, member: 45"]rather than telling them they should wear one to the pub (which is deceptive because the stats don't reflect accurately the risk), is all that's needed.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean things like this?

But you don't wear a helmet when traveling in a car or going in pubs, where head injuries are more likely.

Or this?

wear protection when you least need it.

Or this?

If you wear a helmet on a bike but not in the car you are risking God's precious gift.

Or this?

Are you claiming your risk of head injury is less in a car?

Or this?

My question was why do you not wear a helmet when your risk of TBI is higher than when you do wear a helmet?

Or this?

So you insist on protecting your head when it is least at risk?

Or this?

You choose not to wear a helmet when you at greater risk, but insist on using a helmet when the risk is reduced.

Or this?

So, you refuse to wear a helmet when you are most at risk cos people you've never met said it saved your mate's life?