The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

figbat

Slippery scientist
The risk of a traumatic brain injury whilst cycling unhelmeted is estimated at around 0.41 per million hours travelled or, if I cycle for 2 hours a day, once every 3,300 years or so.
Cycling is a safe activity. Cyclists can expect a severe head injury once every 8,000 years of average cycling.
I often see statements like these used as an argument or defence and no doubt they are used for rhetoric, they are a perfect example of abusing statistics. The way they are written implies that the accidents will happen on a timescale and since the wavelength of this timescale is so much longer than a lifetime it is not going to happen.

Of course (and I assume the correspondents are well aware of this) this isn't how statistics work. You could have your serious accident in the first moment of your cycling career. Or you could have more than your fair share of accidents. Population-based statistics are of no consequence to an individual, as their personal risks will be dependent on very specific, local factors. I'm sure the person lying in a coma takes no comfort from the fact they 'took one for the team'.

As to the topic - I wear them. I ride mostly MTB, some gravel, some road. I've never hit my head in a fall but I'm content to carry the small level of injury mitigation with me in case I do. If there was a way of knowing when I was going to have the accident I'd only wear it on that ride.
 

yello

Guest
re helmeted cyclists passing judgement and 'the times, they are a changing', let me relate a little story.

My old club (largely social, CTC style) has been for the last 3 or 4 years actively touting for new members. It follows a change in leadership and is intended to keep the club alive with new blood (as they unfortunately say) I turned up for a ride a couple of years back (sans helmet as ever but I'm actually one of the few 'old school' riders not to wear one) and one of the new members tells me that I should be wearing one as it's the club's policy (it's not but it is advised) What surprised me was that before I could respond, a number of other members jumped in and politely told the new member that it wasn't a problem.

I no longer ride with the club, not just because of that but partly, and prefer to ride alone these days. I acknowledge that I am a dying breed. One that started riding before the cycle helmet existed (or, at least, was popularised) I have never felt at risk on my bike and am completely comfortable not wearing a helmet. I accept there's a need in certain contexts and accept equally the popular portrayal of smiling happy families buckling up for a family friendly river side cycle path ride. It's just not my world.

For me, that's a debate as much as any safety issues. I'm getting on and worlds have changed on me. As they do with many issues. Helmets are part of what cyclists do now, part of the agenda and becoming unquestioned. Not rightly nor wrongly, not sadly... just is.
 
Consider two people of 175 cm in height walking in the dark and unaware of a steel beam across the path at a height of 176 cm. Which one is likely to suffer from an impact, the helmet wearer or the non helmet wearer?:rolleyes:
I would expect the helmet wearer to suffer a neck injury.
I did that in the Black Country Museum . We had to wear a hard hat because of the low ceiling . I walked in and ducked to avoid the obstacle not taking into account of the extra height of the helmet . I didn't half get a jolt on my neck !
 

Randomnerd

Bimbleur
Location
North Yorkshire
It would seem so.

Along with many looks of disdain, I often get a comment directed towards me by passing cyclists, but its nothing worse than I get from motorists

Ive had it a number of times from other cyclists. Rather loutish.

Pulled up solo at a cafe last summer and a road cyclist told me I was “shameful” for “having no lid” ! I wear a cotton cap - jauntily obvs - to mop up the slight glow on the uphill stretches. And clothes, you know. He was showing off in front of his mates.

Each to their own.

If someone is harvesting stats on what people feel re helmets, I’m happy for others to wear them, but please don’t force me to do so. I’m an amateur cyclist bimbling a long way week in week out a d want to be just left alone to get on with it. Cycling is freedom. Stop telling me what’s good for me.
 
Cycling is a safe activity. Cyclists can expect a severe head injury once every 8,000 years of average cycling.

I often see statements like these used as an argument or defence and no doubt they are used for rhetoric, they are a perfect example of abusing statistics. The way they are written implies that the accidents will happen on a timescale and since the wavelength of this timescale is so much longer than a lifetime it is not going to happen.
No, I think you are inferring that - there is no implication.

There are plenty of risks in this world that I know are very unlikely; I know they can happen, but I make an informed decision not to mitigate them (or at least, to not wear PPE to mitigate them). This is how we live in the real world - we make these assessments every day.

A good related example is wearing gloves on the bike: I do this 99/100 rides, but occasionally it's too inconvenient. I am not panicking as I ride to the shop. I do not lecture other "serious" riders on a long ride without gloves.

But I don't wear a helmet while walking in case a plane component crashes onto me; IMO it is very unlikely.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Do helmet wearing Cyclists genuinely have an issue with non wearers?
Yes, they ban us from rides they have a hand in organising, based on the usual unproven claims used by zealots to promote helmets outside adverts (where advertising standards prevent use of unsubstantiated claims such as helmets prevent injury, are better than nothing or keep riders safe).
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
It’s not an abuse , it just shows how low the risk is and is comparable to head injury in your car or walking. Couple that with how helmets are only designed for low speed falls to the ground under gravity involving no other vehicle. It explains why helmets have no measurable effect of brain injuries. In any serious accident your helmet isn’t going to ”save you”, the outcome will be pretty much the same as not wearing one. In fact in many cases the helmet will make it worse.

I have no issues with others wearing them, but if they state they are necessary that’s a whole other ballgame, and certainly not based on sound evidence.
 

Brandane

Legendary Member
Location
Costa Clyde
Do helmet wearing Cyclists genuinely have an issue with non wearers?
It will be as usual, a very small minority - but some certainly do! I've had the odd comment while out cycling bare headed, and even in laid back France I had a cyclist tapping his helmeted head as he passed in the opposite direction while looking at my head.

I have also read at least one message on here in one of the many "Do you acknowledge other cyclists" threads from someone who said they acknowledge other cyclists apart from those who are not wearing helmets :rolleyes:.

I have a cycling buddy who insists on asking me, every time we meet for a bike ride, where my helmet is. He is serious; which is why I rarely meet up with him any more. Thing is, his helmet once saved his life, apparently. He was cycling along a local road when he rode into a parked car - came off and broke his collar bone. Helmet took a hit too, which of course saved his life. The reason he didn't see the parked car was because he was too busy checking his Garmin. I'm glad he admitted that bit to me as it's always handy to have as a comeback at the appropriate time.
 
Cycling is a safe activity. Cyclists can expect a severe head injury once every 8,000 years of average cycling.
So is motorcycling, in 30 years I have had exactly the same number of accidents on a motorbike as I have a bicycle as I have a car. ’I watched the Paris-Nice race yesterday and the Jumbo Vista rider coming off as the street narrowed 500m after a sprint. Not going at any massive speed really but his helmet was cracked in two at the back and he looked a bit wobbly. Assessed as good to carry on. Now who can medically say on here that had he not had the helmet on he would have been exactly the same without any further injury ? No split head needing multiple stitches or a fractured skull ? But then who can prove the helmet saved him from those injuries ? The speed was not a factor as the whole peloton was slowing for the narrow street so guessing he was at a similar speed more like average joe would be doing. To say his head was hit because it’s 50% bigger to me is b******s, if you hit something with enough force to crack a helmet then you where always on a trajectory to hit it and a 1” thick helmet was never the difference between missing and hitting.......like a Tom and Jerry cartoon where his head stops inches from railroad crossing and train only for the gate to open and smack him instead
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
’I watched the Paris-Nice race yesterday and the Jumbo Vista rider coming off as the street narrowed 500m after a sprint. Not going at any massive speed really but his helmet was cracked in two at the back and he looked a bit wobbly. Assessed as good to carry on.
It didn't look like he was assessed in line with the new concussion protocols. Doctor arrives and gives a thumbs up within seconds, doing no tests. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other...aks-into-two-pieces-following-parisnice-crash

The speed was not a factor as the whole peloton was slowing for the narrow street so guessing he was at a similar speed more like average joe would be doing.
Their average speed for the whole stage was over 43km/h (27mph). No way were they doing 10-15mph if it was 500m after a sprint.

To say his head was hit because it’s 50% bigger to me is b******s,
No, indeed, the primary cause was routing the peloton into a narrow street with bare metal fences just 500m after a sprint bonus line! The increased size of his head+hat probably didn't improve his chances, though.

My method to avoid that sort of crash is not to sprint into a narrow fence-infested street with nearly 200 other cyclists with no stopping distances between us. It's not a situation likely to occur outside of closed-road racing, so not really terribly persuasive about general public helmet use.
if you hit something with enough force to crack a helmet then you where always on a trajectory to hit it and a 1” thick helmet was never the difference between missing and hitting.......
He broke the back off his helmet. That's outside the tested protective zone on most helmets and doesn't take much force to break on some models. Also, smashing the back like that indicates it may have been done as he landed on the floor on his back, which is known to be a situation where helmet use can make concussion and neck injuries worse than not using one. It's simply not a crash that current cycle helmets have to be tested for.

Ultimately, we probably won't ever know the behavior of the helmet because the crash wasn't caught on camera, with the motorbikes being too far ahead and behind because of the narrow street and few roadside spectators because of the current pandemic.
 
So is motorcycling, in 30 years I have had exactly the same number of accidents on a motorbike as I have a bicycle as I have a car.
So are you saying you use head-protection when driving that is similar to your motorcycle usage?

Seems a strange comment otherwise ...

p.s. wearing a lid in the Paris-Nice professional bunch road race seems reasonable - they were falling off way above the national average for folks riding for leisure/fitness on open roads, and their average speed is probably close to double!
 
He broke the back off his helmet. That's outside the tested protective zone on most helmets and doesn't take much force to break on some models. Also, smashing the back like that indicates it may have been done as he landed on the floor on his back
I think I would rather crack a helmet rather than the back of my head when landing on my back though wouldn’t you ?
 
Top Bottom