The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[mjr]

View attachment 361362

Richie Porte and Dan Martins TDF crash.

While Porte was carried off in a neck brace!

It's probably better not to do 70+kph down wet mountain roads. Both those speeds, plus multi bike pile ups are far beyond helmet testing. Quick Step Floors are extremely irresponsible to suggest helmets will save people from the consequences of such reckless riding.

 

[User33236]

While Porte was carried off in a neck brace!

It's probably better not to do 70+kph down wet mountain roads. Both those speeds, plus multi bike pile ups are far beyond helmet testing. Quick Step Floors are extremely irresponsible to suggest helmets will save people from the consequences of such reckless riding.

To be fair I'd expect Porte to have been placed in a neck brace, purely as a precaution, due to the nature of his crash and would have little to do with the wearing of a helmet or not.

 

[jefmcg]

Disturbing numbers of calls for MHL in the replies


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/quickstepteam/status/884071157682581505

 

[snorri]

Cycle helmets = Crash magnets

 

[velovoice]

Those are helmets that failed, not helmets that saved lives.

Very glad Richie's and Dan's skulls did their job.

 

[mjr]

Disturbing numbers of calls for MHL in the replies


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/quickstepteam/status/884071157682581505

Yeah, because none of the riders suffered serious injuries like broken bones(!)

But it's what we should expect from racers, who shamelessly exploited a death to ram through compulsory helmets when they'd been failing for years to manufacture convincing evidence of benefit, as discussed earlier in this thread at https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/4504499

 

[Wobblers]

Those are helmets that failed, not helmets that saved lives.

Very glad Richie's and Dan's skulls did their job.

Hmmm. Actually, I'm not convinced by that. True, there are very obvious cracks. But there is equally obviously a great deal of material removed - presumably by abrasion via the road surface. The impact forces seem to have been quite low. This suggests impact at speed, fitting neatly with the reported event. I think it fair to say the helmet prevented a very nasty scapl injury. In that sense, yes, it did its job. There is no evidence to suggest it saved his life though. It also has to be pointed out that the bulk of the helmet itself would have played a role in increasing both the impact duration and forces - this we aren't able to quantify in any meaningful way, unfortunately.

 

[slowmotion]

For the last ten days of hot weather, I've gone out without a helmet. It didn't save my life, but it feels good anyway.

 

[velovoice]

Hmmm. Actually, I'm not convinced by that. True, there are very obvious cracks. But there is equally obviously a great deal of material removed - presumably by abrasion via the road surface. The impact forces seem to have been quite low. This suggests imact at speed, fitting neatly with the reported event. I think it fair to say the helmet prevented a very nasty scapl injury. In that sense, yes, it did its job. There is no evidence to suggest it saved his life though. It also has to be pointed out that the bulk of the helmet itself would have played a role in increasing both the impact duration and forces - this we aren't able to quantify in any meaningful way, unfortunately.

Yes. "Head injury" encompasses but is not the same as "brain injury". So often what people want/expect/assume is that they're getting protection from brain injury, when in fact the value of wearing a helmet lies in protection against other types of head injury e.g. abrasions, cuts, etc. - the injuries that bleed and look horrifying and dramatic but don't generally lead to death.

 

[ufkacbln]

Hmmm. Actually, I'm not convinced by that. True, there are very obvious cracks. But there is equally obviously a great deal of material removed - presumably by abrasion via the road surface. The impact forces seem to have been quite low. This suggests impact at speed, fitting neatly with the reported event. I think it fair to say the helmet prevented a very nasty scapl injury. In that sense, yes, it did its job. There is no evidence to suggest it saved his life though. It also has to be pointed out that the bulk of the helmet itself would have played a role in increasing both the impact duration and forces - this we aren't able to quantify in any meaningful way, unfortunately.

Have a look at the "Helmet saved my life images" and there is a common factor

In the rush to get the lightest and most ventilated helmet, more and more material is being removed, and hence less material is there to absorb the impact hence undermining the effectiveness.

Then there is the issue of small weak areas where there is no longer sufficient material to support the shape, so many helmets now have a stiff cage that forms the shape with some token polystyrene covering the cage

In most cases these helmets have split at the weak points where these narrow bridges occur between ventilation ducts

 

[Brandane]

The BBC have jumped on yet another "helmet saved my life" story:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-40774974

I'm not disputing that a helmet maybe DID save his skull on this occasion, but it is unlikely and is pure speculation by the contributors involved.
The bit that really annoys me is the photo of the post crash helmet with a stone wedged in one of the air vents, accompanied by the claim that "there is a stone wedged in his helmet which WOULD have been lodged in his skull". Last time I looked my skull didn't have big open vents in it which are ideally shaped to collect a stone during a head/ground interface.

The entire article is full of wild claims about the effectiveness of helmets in a collision which was face first - with an open faced helmet. The boy suffered a suspected neck injury - who's to say that the wearing of a helmet didn't contribute to that?

 

[mjr]

Today I bought myself a helmet after one off in the wet,2 crash's,1 my fault,one not my fault,one near miss on a roundabout yesterday evening,scary, and pressure from friends and family.

I'm worried about people that buy helmets for this reason in two ways. Firstly, will the crash rate of the cyclist increase now that they wear a helmet, possibly with serious consequences? Secondly, are the friends and family ignorant of the arguments made in discussions like this or do they wish to hurt the cyclist?

 

[mjr]

Helmet accused of strangling cyclist in http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/driver-...ist-in-norwich-cannot-be-prosecuted-1-5136540 - what would have happened if the passing police officer hadn't removed it? Not that his actions were sufficient to save the cyclist, as it turned out, who died months later from spinal and chest injuries - RIP.

 

[Tanis8472]

Too many things wrong with that articles information.

 

[mjr]

Too many things wrong with that articles information.

Probably - it's Archant - but what specifically would you like to draw attention to?