The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[growingvegetables]

... yada yada yada .... I thought of all the helmet refuseniks ... yada yada yada.

Whereas a lot us thought ... "Damn, another motorist now totally convinced by the "evidence". That helmets make cyclists invincible (they just bounce back, unhurt and mouthy). That it doesn't matter in future how close he comes, or even if he clips a guy on a bike."

 

[MontyVeda]

I witnessed ( yet another ) incident involving a cyclist wearing a lid, which looked to be a very good idea, on my 110 mile road ride yesterday. The guy on a bike just in front of me did a quick shoulder check before a move to his left, to take a left hand turn. The van which had just passed me, misjudged the guys speed, and clipped his ( turned ) head, with his mirror. It brought the cyclist down, who's head was the first thing to contact the ground. Everybody stopped, and the cyclist got straight up, and started giving the van driver a 'talking to'. I have absolutely no doubt that either bit of the incident would have had a very different outcome, had the rider been lidless. I thought of all the helmet refuseniks when I saw the van clip the guys head, and thought, that's another situation these people would never have thought of, when it comes to the obvious benefits of lid wearing. Sequential incidents, both having a ( relatively ) favourable outcome, just because the guy ( sensibly ) chose to wear a lid.

If you want to wear a lid for such an unlikely scenario, then go for it. If i started applying your logic, I'd be donning a lid the moment i get out of bed... the benefits are after all 'obvious'.

 

[mjr]

I thought of all the helmet refuseniks when I saw the van clip the guys head, and thought, that's another situation these people would never have thought of, when it comes to the obvious benefits of lid wearing.

How did it clip the guy's head if he was wearing a helmet? How didn't it clip the somewhat larger helmet?

I think we're all well aware that helmets make heads bigger and thereby more likely to be struck by projecting parts of incompetently-driven motor vehicles overtaking too close, at least since that helmet-maker-sponsored ex-sportsman was nearly brained by a lorry mirror while cycling on a US highway a few years ago. Every time I hear a story like this, I wonder why all the helmet zealots refuse to accept that making one of the most sensitive parts of your body into a bigger target is a very poor idea!

 

[Brandane]

I witnessed ( yet another ) incident involving a cyclist wearing a lid, which looked to be a very good idea, on my 110 mile road ride yesterday. The guy on a bike just in front of me did a quick shoulder check before a move to his left, to take a left hand turn. The van which had just passed me, misjudged the guys speed, and clipped his ( turned ) head, with his mirror. It brought the cyclist down, who's head was the first thing to contact the ground. Everybody stopped, and the cyclist got straight up, and started giving the van driver a 'talking to'. I have absolutely no doubt that either bit of the incident would have had a very different outcome, had the rider been lidless. I thought of all the helmet refuseniks when I saw the van clip the guys head, and thought, that's another situation these people would never have thought of, when it comes to the obvious benefits of lid wearing. Sequential incidents, both having a ( relatively ) favourable outcome, just because the guy ( sensibly ) chose to wear a lid.

Wow; you are either involved in, or witness to, an awful lot of incidents involving cyclists.
You are either extremely unfortunate, or you are Enid Blyton. I know which one I have my money firmly on.

 

[ufkacbln]

I witnessed ( yet another ) incident involving a cyclist wearing a lid, which looked to be a very good idea, on my 110 mile road ride yesterday. The guy on a bike just in front of me did a quick shoulder check before a move to his left, to take a left hand turn. The van which had just passed me, misjudged the guys speed, and clipped his ( turned ) head, with his mirror. It brought the cyclist down, who's head was the first thing to contact the ground. Everybody stopped, and the cyclist got straight up, and started giving the van driver a 'talking to'. I have absolutely no doubt that either bit of the incident would have had a very different outcome, had the rider been lidless. I thought of all the helmet refuseniks when I saw the van clip the guys head, and thought, that's another situation these people would never have thought of, when it comes to the obvious benefits of lid wearing. Sequential incidents, both having a ( relatively ) favourable outcome, just because the guy ( sensibly ) chose to wear a lid.

Ironically there is research that shows drivers do not give as much room to helmeted cyclists as they do to non helmeted ones.

So the moral of this story is that there is a real chance that wearing a helmet contributed to the drivers decision to pass closely and hence the impact

 

[Lonestar]

How did it clip the guy's head if he was wearing a helmet? How didn't it clip the somewhat larger helmet?

I think we're all well aware that helmets make heads bigger and thereby more likely to be struck by projecting parts of incompetently-driven motor vehicles overtaking too close, at least since that helmet-maker-sponsored ex-sportsman was nearly brained by a lorry mirror while cycling on a US highway a few years ago. Every time I hear a story like this, I wonder why all the helmet zealots refuse to accept that making one of the most sensitive parts of your body into a bigger target is a very poor idea!

If a car/lorry or whatever is passing that close then you've got problems.

 

[mjr]

If a car/lorry or whatever is passing that close then you've got problems.

Yes, but if it is going to pass that close, would you rather be hit by it or narrowly missed?

 

[ufkacbln]

One does hope that with the witness statements and evidence, this has been reported to the Police and a prosecution sought. for what is demonstrably careless driving

 

[Racing roadkill]

Yes, but if it is going to pass that close, would you rather be hit by it or narrowly missed?

There was no narrow about it, it contacted the bit of his lid where his head would have been, completely exposed without the lid.

 

[Racing roadkill]

One does hope that with the witness statements and evidence, this has been reported to the Police and a prosecution sought. for what is demonstrably careless driving

I hope so. The police turned up very quickly, and got all the details.

 

[Lonestar]

Yes, but if it is going to pass that close, would you rather be hit by it or narrowly missed?

One of my workmates got hit by a wing mirror apparently...Wasn't wearing a helmet at least I don't think so.He's an unlucky bugger anyway but at least he's ok.

 

[ufkacbln]

The problem is that once again we have an anecdote that can be interpreted in a number of ways.

Something that hasn't been tackled is that the cyclist seems to have changed his profile, leaning out and looking over his shoulder (there was also a change in road position) and this could have reduced the distance between the van and cyclist.

 

[jefmcg]

Almost universally believe cycling with a helmet is safe?

How do you know what all those people in Australia think?

Seems like a very speculative claim to me, no need to bring up all the stuff about cycling in Australia, I've seen and read it before and don't believe anyone can really know what all those people think. And I don't believe anyone should claim they do

I'd challenge that... maybe it's more a case of them universally believing that cycling without a helmet will likely result in them getting pulled and fined.

There is a consistency in attitudes that I find when discussing cycling with my friends in Australia, that almost never comes up with Europeans. How dangerous it is, how I should never cycle without a helmet. Friends have refused to get on a bicycle on a tow path if I couldn't provide a helmet, even those who would happily ride a divided highway (== dual carriageway) as long as they were wearing one.

I particularly recall a visit from a friend who cycles everywhere in Melbourne - a big busy city - who giggled nervously to me "Don't tell <husband> I cycled in London without a helmet". I did not point out that most cyclist killed in London are crushed under the back wheels of trucks, so with or without a helmet is about the same.

You see it in newspapers, too, and in the Government. The NSW roads minister has introduced draconian measures against cyclists with the claim that it will save a lives despite the fact that diabetes related amputations are going up 25% per year in that state.

And why would it be surprising that Australians have a different attitudes to helmets than Europe? If you are under 30 in Australia, you've probably never seen anyone cycle without a helmet. Wouldn't that make you assume it was a very dangerous activity with a particularly severe risk of head injury? Wouldn't Australians not believing that be the stretch, the thing that would require proof?

(yes, there 24+ million Australians I have never spoken to about cycling, but the attitude of those I have spoken to is so consistent that I have extrapolated.)

 

[snorri]

Not only helmets, but some comments in this blog relating to the dangers of cycling as perceived by the non cyclist (and some cyclists too) .
https://samuriinbred.wordpress.com/2017/01/01/the-elephant-in-the-room-humans/

 

[User169]

Compulsion for kids in France...

http://road.cc/content/news/215619-france-makes-cycle-helmets-compulsory-children-aged-11-and-under