The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

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Me neither, but did spend a few moments looking at hard hats for building sites, the blurb of which also seems to be cautiously worded. eg. 'some' protection.
My mother was a lawyer, so I have an inkling about this stuff. It's all torts, based on precedence and case law (eg Snail in the Bottle). It would take skilled lawyers and possibly lots of court time to resolve, which would be expensive and bothersome. Better to replace "safe" with "safer" and let it go at that.
 

swansonj

Guru
There are a number of significant factors that need to be considered. When I say "lateral movement", this is not merely seperation between the two crack surfaces. This also includes movement where both surfaces move past each other... err... laterally (both normal and orthogonally to the impact force vector). Consider that the helmet is a (roughly) spherical structure: it is inevitable that an impact will result in substantial shear forces being set up some distance away from the impact site. Shear forces are the principal means by which the two crack surfaces move past each other. Furthermore, given that the foam is an elastic material, once the load is removed the crack will spring back, at least to a degree. It is therefore impossible to judge from the seperation of the crack afterwards how much movement took place during impact. This is important - compression takes up at most 20 mm. Even if movement along a crack is only 2 mm, it can be readily seen that it is sufficient to materially diminish the protection offered.

It is not true that cracks distal from the impact site are unimportant. The essential thing about a crack is that it will propagate most readily in regions of maximum stress. A crack that starts some way from the impact is unlikely to stay there - it is highly energetically favourable for it to propagate to the impact site. Remember that a helmet is an integral load bearing structure and even elements far away have a direct bearing on its strength. I referred to this above, by pointing out that shear stress is distributed throughout the structure. And this happens whether or not the helmet fits properly.

Which brings us to stress raisers. (I deleted a post about this the other night, thinking that it was a little too arcane. Ha!) It has taken a long time for it to be understood just how important shape is - think of say the Liberty ships, where some broke in half because a crack started from the sharp corner of a hatch. Or the Comet crashes: the designers were no fools and reinforced the aluminium round the windows, but didn't understand the sharp corners amplified the forces in that region by an order of magnitude. In short, the sharper the corner, the higher the stress amplification. It is disturbing how often sharp corners are seen in helmet vents. Impact stresses in those areas can be expected to far higher than the rest of the helmet. It is not a sign of good design - I wonder just how much the designers really understand about the way materials fail.
We do not, I think, disagree on the physics (in any event, this stuff is much closer to your day job than mine, I last thought seriously about crack propagation in a final year undergraduate module thirty years ago).

My contention is quite limited: it's simply that a crack or split in a helmet is not necessarily evidence that it's failed.

There are plenty of scenarios where a crack would indicate a failure or degradation of performance. But there are also plenty of scenarios where a crack does not allow you to deduce anything about its performance.

I said at the start of this exchange that the test for a helmet having done something useful is the presence of crushing, not the absence of a crack (or conversely, failure is indicated by the absence of crushing, not the presence of a crack). I broadly stand by that. In particular circumstances, it may be possible to deduce from the location of the crack that the ability of the helmet to absorb energy by crushing was impaired. But in general, to say, as has been done on this thread, "it cracked/split so it can't have done any good" is surely unhelpful. "It didn't crush so it can't have done much good" is usually also applicable and much more helpful.

I realise I am fast becoming obsessive on this narrow point and apologise to everyone who doesn't share @McWobble's and my interest in material properties. :smile:
 
This was a letter from the HSE during the Post Office Helmet compulsion attempt

Thank you for your report on the effect cycle helmets have on cycle safety. Unfortunately HSE are able to offer you little help in this area as we only have responsibility towards cyclists while they are engaged in a work activity. These cyclists will represent a very small number of the total. HSE has no remit with regards to workers cycling to and from work. Furthermore cycle helmets used on the public highway are specifically excluded from the Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) at work regulations. This means that it would be very hard for an employer to force an employee to wear a cycle helmet on health and safety grounds, they will however be free to require employees to wear cycle helmets as part of their uniform.

HSE has no remit to dictate the uniform policy of a company unless it falls within the scope of PPE. Ultimately the wearing of cycle helmets is a matter on individual choice, any stance to the contrary could potentially be challenged on human rights
grounds. With regards to the use of cycle helmets on the public roads by members of the public, this is a policy area that falls totally within the remit of the Department for Transport.

Yours,
Jon Windeatt
Health & Safety Executive
Safety Policy Directorate
Workplace Transport & Special Hazards Section.

30 Sept 2002


More recently there was further clarification from the HSE in their current guide to PPE

Cycle helmets or crash helmets worn by employees on the roads are not covered by
the Regulations. Motorcycle helmets are legally required under road traffic legislation.

This is from the HSE's guide to Perrsonal Protective Equipment published in 2013

Cycle helmets are simply not PPE as defined in Health and Safety legislation



There is a big difference between protective equipment and formal PPE as defined in law
 
Strap the helmet around the front fork/ spokes....it takes some neck for someone to try and un wind it if its in full view, also stops any one wheeling your bike away if you are in a shop for a minute or two.
That's a good tip especially for my Sunday rides when I am out early and pop into the local shop to buy a paper at the end of it.
 
So after 330 pages we may have found a use for a helmet. Locks, particularly cafe locks, tend to be smaller and easier to carry in a pocket
Clearly right martin but just entangling helmets straps in wheel does seem a good option if you have forgot your lock.
Personally I try never to leave any of my bikes unattended even for a few minutes.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
The original question was what to do with said helmet when leaving the bike.
Well that question has now been solved so we've achieved something. Which of the solutions is more aesthetic though: carry a helmet all the way to the cafe or pop a small cafe lock in your rear pocket?
 

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
We do not, I think, disagree on the physics (in any event, this stuff is much closer to your day job than mine, I last thought seriously about crack propagation in a final year undergraduate module thirty years ago).

My contention is quite limited: it's simply that a crack or split in a helmet is not necessarily evidence that it's failed.

There are plenty of scenarios where a crack would indicate a failure or degradation of performance. But there are also plenty of scenarios where a crack does not allow you to deduce anything about its performance.

I said at the start of this exchange that the test for a helmet having done something useful is the presence of crushing, not the absence of a crack (or conversely, failure is indicated by the absence of crushing, not the presence of a crack). I broadly stand by that. In particular circumstances, it may be possible to deduce from the location of the crack that the ability of the helmet to absorb energy by crushing was impaired. But in general, to say, as has been done on this thread, "it cracked/split so it can't have done any good" is surely unhelpful. "It didn't crush so it can't have done much good" is usually also applicable and much more helpful.

I realise I am fast becoming obsessive on this narrow point and apologise to everyone who doesn't share @McWobble's and my interest in material properties. :smile:

Well, given the materials I look at in my job (gels and structured liquids), it would be somewhat unusual to say the least to see cracks appear in them...

You are thinking too much about the crack and too little on the reasons - or more correctly, the forces behind the crack. A crack is usually the result of a shear or tensile stress. In circumstances where the impact vector is normal to the helmet surface, and it is supported underneath the contact point by an unyielding object with a greater Young's modulus and yield strength than the helmet material, the only force will be a compressive one. This, however, is unrealistic.

This assumes that the helmet is a uniform spherical shell. Most helmets have vents, and all have attachment points for straps. These will introduce shear stresses and tensile stresses at the strap attachments. In reality, a helmet will not fit perfectly. This inevitably introduces areas where the helmet structure is unsupported from below, and thus will experience bending moments, which appear as shear. Of more importance, the majority of impacts are not normal to the helmet surface: there will be a lateral component which acts along the helmet surface. A shear stress, in other words. It is not sufficient for a helmet to crush progressively under a compressive load: it must also be able to cope with the shear (and tensile) stresses set up by a typical impact (note that the usual tests such as the weight being dropped onto a helmet on an anvil do not test for shear strength). Cracking indicates that the helmet was subject to shear forces that were higher than it was able to cope with.

The question, of course, is whether this failure matters. I would argue that your critreia for success - the appearance of crushing - is insufficiently rigorous. As I pointed out in my last post, cracking is indicative that the helmet's ability to reduce impact acceleration was compromised. It is not difficult to conceive a scenario where helmet failure in shear reduced the amount of compression, and thus increased the impact forces experienced by the wearer. Such a scenario cannot be considered a success, especially given just how marginal the protection a helmet offers actually is. You need proper fracture analysis, backed up with finite element modelling to determine exactly what effect on the impact forces experienced by the wearer are (not trivial, this!) but it is a vey useful indication that protection was compromised. What is impossible to say is just how much that protection was reduced, not by photographs or even careful measurements.

One of the comments I forgot to add in my last post (and decided not to edit it in afterwards, as it was already far too long and boring [1]) was about the role of the shell. The foam cracking is mitigated if the shell is sufficiently strong in shear to hold the fragments together. The shell needs to be both stiff, strong and be resistant to crack initiation and propagation (a property engineers call toughness. Metals possess it, glass does not.). The polycarbonate shell is inadequate in all these attributes. A thin aluminium shell would perform significantly better, and furthermore would itself deform plastically in impact. The plastic deformation of a metal is akin to it behaving as a viscous fluid and is very effective at dissipating energy - that's how the crumple zones in a car work.


[1] We've had insults, circular arguments but I don't think anyone has gone for the out-and-out bore-them-to-death approach. Well, until now. Sorry.
 

Justinslow

Lovely jubbly
Location
Suffolk
Well, given the materials I look at in my job (gels and structured liquids), it would be somewhat unusual to say the least to see cracks appear in them...

You are thinking too much about the crack and too little on the reasons - or more correctly, the forces behind the crack. A crack is usually the result of a shear or tensile stress. In circumstances where the impact vector is normal to the helmet surface, and it is supported underneath the contact point by an unyielding object with a greater Young's modulus and yield strength than the helmet material, the only force will be a compressive one. This, however, is unrealistic.

This assumes that the helmet is a uniform spherical shell. Most helmets have vents, and all have attachment points for straps. These will introduce shear stresses and tensile stresses at the strap attachments. In reality, a helmet will not fit perfectly. This inevitably introduces areas where the helmet structure is unsupported from below, and thus will experience bending moments, which appear as shear. Of more importance, the majority of impacts are not normal to the helmet surface: there will be a lateral component which acts along the helmet surface. A shear stress, in other words. It is not sufficient for a helmet to crush progressively under a compressive load: it must also be able to cope with the shear (and tensile) stresses set up by a typical impact (note that the usual tests such as the weight being dropped onto a helmet on an anvil do not test for shear strength). Cracking indicates that the helmet was subject to shear forces that were higher than it was able to cope with.

The question, of course, is whether this failure matters. I would argue that your critreia for success - the appearance of crushing - is insufficiently rigorous. As I pointed out in my last post, cracking is indicative that the helmet's ability to reduce impact acceleration was compromised. It is not difficult to conceive a scenario where helmet failure in shear reduced the amount of compression, and thus increased the impact forces experienced by the wearer. Such a scenario cannot be considered a success, especially given just how marginal the protection a helmet offers actually is. You need proper fracture analysis, backed up with finite element modelling to determine exactly what effect on the impact forces experienced by the wearer are (not trivial, this!) but it is a vey useful indication that protection was compromised. What is impossible to say is just how much that protection was reduced, not by photographs or even careful measurements.

One of the comments I forgot to add in my last post (and decided not to edit it in afterwards, as it was already far too long and boring [1]) was about the role of the shell. The foam cracking is mitigated if the shell is sufficiently strong in shear to hold the fragments together. The shell needs to be both stiff, strong and be resistant to crack initiation and propagation (a property engineers call toughness. Metals possess it, glass does not.). The polycarbonate shell is inadequate in all these attributes. A thin aluminium shell would perform significantly better, and furthermore would itself deform plastically in impact. The plastic deformation of a metal is akin to it behaving as a viscous fluid and is very effective at dissipating energy - that's how the crumple zones in a car work.


[1] We've had insults, circular arguments but I don't think anyone has gone for the out-and-out bore-them-to-death approach. Well, until now. Sorry.
I suppose a good question would be - just what level of impact can a helmet withstand without it "cracking" or failing? Not what test it has passed, but what it actually can handle, independent tests, I'm surprised we have no information on this from a third party. Surely it would be fairly easy to buy a range of helmets and test them to destruction? Why has no organisation done this?
 
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