The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[srw]

i don't think that has anything to do with the helmet debate

On the contrary - it's extremely relevant. It demonstrates that evidence and careful risk assessment can trump emotion and knee-jerk reactions. All we have to do is get sufficient steam behind the ideas that the risks of cycling bare-headed are over-stated and that it gives you a great high.

I found it amusing that to get into the USA I had to declare that I had never taken illegal drugs, even though I am visiting a city where medical and recreational uses of cannabis are legal - and where helmets are mandatory when cycling. Fortunately I'm extremely boring and so had no difficulty being honest in my declaration; on the other hand, even though there is a public hire bike system here the idea of renting a helmet puts me off - and, by the looks of it, a lot of other people feel the same.

 

[ufkacbln]

i don't think that has anything to do with the helmet debate

Speed does

 

[ufkacbln]

On the contrary - it's extremely relevant. It demonstrates that evidence and careful risk assessment can trump emotion and knee-jerk reactions. All we have to do is get sufficient steam behind the ideas that the risks of cycling bare-headed are over-stated and that it gives you a great high.

I found it amusing that to get into the USA I had to declare that I had never taken illegal drugs, even though I am visiting a city where medical and recreational uses of cannabis are legal - and where helmets are mandatory when cycling. Fortunately I'm extremely boring and so had no difficulty being honest in my declaration; on the other hand, even though there is a public hire bike system here the idea of renting a helmet puts me off - and, by the looks of it, a lot of other people feel the same.

As posted before those schemes with helmets do far lss well and often fail.

There was an attempt recently to introduce helmets for Boris Bikes.

The Company used all the usual pro helmet rhetoric, but absolutely hated it when people asked how they were going to maintain the helmets, ensure they were wearable , fitted properly and were not damaged

They quickly withdrew when faced with a little reality

 

[Fab Foodie]

This from the country which is finally legalising medical marijuana because there's evidence it's safe and works...

If weed works better than helmets .... I'm taking it ....

 

[Mugshot]

@GrumpyGregry slightly OT HERE's a nice little graphic from the boys at strava relating to commutes (no mileage data, just pretties)

 

[glenn forger]

As posted before those schemes with helmets do far lss well and often fail.

There was an attempt recently to introduce helmets for Boris Bikes.

The Company used all the usual pro helmet rhetoric, but absolutely hated it when people asked how they were going to maintain the helmets, ensure they were wearable , fitted properly and were not damaged

They quickly withdrew when faced with a little reality

Santander didn't expect a Spanish Inquisition.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Is anyone skilled enough, kind enough, and bored enough, to do the maths/physics for me...

Assuming a rider 2m tall, (bit taller than me) assuming a rider weighing 100kg, (slightly heavier than me) assuming bike hits immovable concrete barrier about 1m high, assuming bike stops immediately (I did ride into a parked car once), assuming rider goes over the bars as bike rotates around the front wheel axle, assuming rider is wearing a helmet (not me then) and lands head first, on the crown of his head, not putting his arms out to slow his fall, on the flat unyielding tarmac beyond the barrier.

How slow does said rider have to be going to get the forces involved in the impact within the parameters used for testing current cycle helmets?

Anyone?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Do Americans wear helmets for running, then? I don't really see what the speed of cycling has to do with it. If anything, greater speed makes helmets less relevant as it makes one more likely to exceed the tested limit if a vertical surface is hit during a crash.

And the Dutch really don't bike at a leisurely pace. On my recent ride around the Netherlands, I was scalped by more than a few old people on upright bikes because I was riding at a leisurely pace (as that's what it was, leisure, looking at the scenery as I rode along)... it was pretty rare that I overtook anyone. Oh and the roadies fairly blitzed past.

If you want to ponder a style difference, people in the Netherlands ride more sat-up, so are less likely to be head-down and ready to fly over the 'bars... but again, that's not the crash that helmets are tested for. If anything, being sat up means the Dutch have further to fall onto the floor, as does their famous greater average height, so wouldn't you expect more severe head injuries?

I was thinking along similar lines on my twiddle in to work this morning. Hence I've asked someone to do the maths above.

Saw a nasty cyclist only pile-up this morning, two cyclists collided and about twenty others went down with them, such is the peleton on the streets here. Lots of shouting, lots of swearing, no helmets. Everyone rode on.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

@GrumpyGregry slightly OT HERE's a nice little graphic from the boys at strava relating to commutes (no mileage data, just pretties)

Dang. I rode to work that day. Like every day. But I don't wear a gps when doing so, as I'm dressed for the destination not the journey.

 

[Tim Hall]

Is anyone skilled enough, kind enough, and bored enough, to do the maths/physics for me...

Assuming a rider 2m tall, (bit taller than me) assuming a rider weighing 100kg, (slightly heavier than me) assuming bike hits immovable concrete barrier about 1m high, assuming bike stops immediately (I did ride into a parked car once), assuming rider goes over the bars as bike rotates around the front wheel axle, assuming rider is wearing a helmet (not me then) and lands head first, on the crown of his head, not putting his arms out to slow his fall, on the flat unyielding tarmac beyond the barrier.

How slow does said rider have to be going to get the forces involved in the impact within the parameters used for testing current cycle helmets?

Anyone?

Hmm. If the barrier is 1m high I'm not sure the bike will rotate about its front axle, assuming a 700c wheel. BICBW.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Hmm. If the barrier is 1m high I'm not sure the bike will rotate about its front axle, assuming a 700c wheel. BICBW.

Assume it does!

Maybe the barrier is only 750mm high....

 

[Mugshot]

Do Americans wear helmets for running, then?

I've mentioned this before but I'm going to dig it up again. My mate mentions helmets everytime he sees me near a bike, everytime. He's a very occasional jogger and an even more occasional cyclist, however he somehow managed to go both cycling and jogging within about a fortnight of each other and to have incidents both times. He was bumped off his bike on a roundabout and grazed his elbow and knee and he tripped while jogging and bashed and cut his head. For some reason he was not impressed when I suggested it would be prudent if he wore a helmet when he went running.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I fall over whilst running, especially whilst trail running, far more often than I fall off my bikes.

 

[ufkacbln]

Santander didn't expect a Spanish Inquisition.

IIRC

Didn't Cardinal Biggles wear a helmet

 

[Justinslow]

I know you old boys find it tough but