The CC col-bagger thread

[Aravis]

The classic definition of a col stipulates that it should have higher ground on both sides - for a route to cross a ridge is not enough in itself. This may explain why in some areas there may be fewer than might have been expected. However, to say that the Cotswolds, for example, are almost col-less doesn't seem very plausible. There is a very distinct col on the A435 Cheltenham - Cirercester road, for example.

I do recall from my days as an enthusiastic col-bagger in l'Ordre des Cols Durs that for a French col to be claimable it had to be named - usually with a roadside sign. In Britain, the naming system is less well-developed. There's no problem with something the Gospel Pass, but in general when riding in Britain it was permissible to claim cols which weren't named provided the geographical conditions were met. So I'm thinking what the author has done is to look for evidence of ancient names which may have been lost from modern maps.

 

[Slick]

Point them in this direction!

They are already here.

 

[RedRider]

The classic definition of a col stipulates that it should have higher ground on both sides - for a route to cross a ridge is not enough in itself. This may explain why in some areas there may be fewer than might have been expected. However, to say that the Cotswolds, for example, are almost col-less doesn't seem very plausible. There is a very distinct col on the A435 Cheltenham - Cirercester road, for example.

I do recall from my days as an enthusiastic col-bagger in l'Ordre des Cols Durs that for a French col to be claimable it had to be named - usually with a roadside sign. In Britain, the naming system is less well-developed. There's no problem with something the Gospel Pass, but in general when riding in Britain it was permissible to claim cols which weren't named provided the geographical conditions were met. So I'm thinking what the author has done is to look for evidence of ancient names which may have been lost from modern maps.

Interesting. He does explain his research methods which did indeed include scouring old maps and stories and he only includes those which match the geographical definition. He mentions the publication of a list of the 533 cols of the British isles by the French Club de Cent Cols but he says several in the list are not actually cols and of course if was incomplete.
He laments that whilst even minor French cols are marked on Michelin and IGN maps as week as being signed on the road the British cols are often only marked by a sign saying 'take your litter home'.
He also admits that total accuracy is a mirage and that corrections and additions would be gratefully and solemnly received. The Cotswolds and Chilterns were his home stomping grounds so I think he'd be particularly intrigued to find he'd missed one there!

 

[Supersuperleeds]

I think you've circled Chadwick Nick in Derbyshire's Amber Valley and you're in luck because it's on a road (only 123 of England's 268 cols contain asphalt) some 217 metres above sea level. The nearest place is Crich, it's latitude is 53.07505 and longitude -1.48181. National grid reference: SK3481453216. The only note about it says 'name on sign in sewage treatment plant'.
A quick Internet search for chadwick nick turns up some parish history notes describing the Nick as obvious when you see the pass in the hill. A former packhorse track, Dick Turpin is reputed to have ridden over it.
Good luck.

Crich is a 50 mile bike ride from Leicester, so I might try and build this into one of my summer imperial century rides

 

[nickyboy]

There are obviously a few around here according to the map upthread. Winnats is an obvious one as it has higher hills either side but a lot of the climbs aren't really like that. Holme Moss isn't a col in the classic definition. Neither is Snake Pass (North is higher ground but South isn't).

I did this one yesterday, it's even called "Col du Mellor". Wonder if it qualifies?

https://www.strava.com/segments/1011564

 

[Shortandcrisp]

There doesn't appear to be one within 150 miles of me. I'm not complaining.

 

[srw]

He also admits that total accuracy is a mirage and that corrections and additions would be gratefully and solemnly received. The Cotswolds and Chilterns were his home stomping grounds so I think he'd be particularly intrigued to find he'd missed one there

To take an obvious (to me, who's a local) example, what we might call the Col de Chequers is geographically a col - it's a road that climbs up to the top of the Chiltern escarpment between two hills. It's also probably an ancient road - bits of it have the characteristic deep erosion into the chalk that's called a Green Lane hereabouts, even if its route was probably buggered about with by enclosure at some stage. But the contours are relatively subtle, and I presume it's just never been called a col or a pass or anything similar.

 

[Aravis]

Interesting. He does explain his research methods which did indeed include scouring old maps and stories and he only includes those which match the geographical definition. He mentions the publication of a list of the 533 cols of the British isles by the French Club de Cent Cols but he says several in the list are not actually cols and of course if was incomplete.
He laments that whilst even minor French cols are marked on Michelin and IGN maps as week as being signed on the road the British cols are often only marked by a sign saying 'take your litter home'.
He also admits that total accuracy is a mirage and that corrections and additions would be gratefully and solemnly received. The Cotswolds and Chilterns were his home stomping grounds so I think he'd be particularly intrigued to find he'd missed one there!

Thanks for that. Maybe I'll have to buy the book after all!

Looking at the map of the Cotswolds, on reflection I can see that the vast majority of roads crossing the ridge aren't cols in the strictest sense. Real geography frequently doesn't behave as neatly as we'd like. Sometimes there's a good reason why a road chooses not to use the lowest point of a saddle - the land may be marshy, so the road naturally edges towards higher ground on one side or the other of the actual col. An example where this happens is the Alpine classic, Col de la Madeleine, which no-one would think for a moment of disallowing, but where to draw the line is far from obvious.

 

[RedRider]

There are obviously a few around here according to the map upthread. Winnats is an obvious one as it has higher hills either side but a lot of the climbs aren't really like that. Holme Moss isn't a col in the classic definition. Neither is Snake Pass (North is higher ground but South isn't).

I did this one yesterday, it's even called "Col du Mellor". Wonder if it qualifies?

https://www.strava.com/segments/1011564

Holme Moss gets into the book as a pass. Winnats Pass gets in there not as a col but as a pass. Conversely, the Woodhead Pass is actually a col!
Btw, Greater Manchester has 4 cols including two on roads near Denshaw and Roe Cross.

To take an obvious (to me, who's a local) example, what we might call the Col de Chequers is geographically a col - it's a road that climbs up to the top of the Chiltern escarpment between two hills. It's also probably an ancient road - bits of it have the characteristic deep erosion into the chalk that's called a Green Lane hereabouts, even if its route was probably buggered about with by enclosure at some stage. But the contours are relatively subtle, and I presume it's just never been called a col or a pass or anything similar.

Again interesting. I'm still getting my head around the scientific definitions and i bow to your local knowledge.
The road or climb is not the col itself even though that's the shorthand we use when cycling or watching bike races eg Col d' Aubisque is shorthand for the climb to the Col d'Aubisque. So the path may climb between two hills but the col would be at the point it crosses over the ridge before heading downwards and only then if at that point the ground was rising to left and right at the same time. Perhaps the most subtle col recorded in the book is only 12 metres above sea level by the way.

Thanks for that. Maybe I'll have to buy the book after all!

Looking at the map of the Cotswolds, on reflection I can see that the vast majority of roads crossing the ridge aren't cols in the strictest sense. Real geography frequently doesn't behave as neatly as we'd like. Sometimes there's a good reason why a road chooses not to use the lowest point of a saddle - the land may be marshy, so the road naturally edges towards higher ground on one side or the other of the actual col. An example where this happens is the Alpine classic, Col de la Madeleine, which no-one would think for a moment of disallowing, but where to draw the line is far from obvious.

What I like about the book is the romance and the stories which at days end is what I like about cycling too.

 

[Tin Pot]

I was excited to discover that London has its own col and I pass over both directions pretty much every day. Here it is, up Honour Oak Park and down Forest Hill Rd:

View attachment 341194

Hah.

I grew up living/cycling on that stretch of road

Coming down Devonshire road on my mates "racer" with failed brakes was an experience/

 

[darrensmith0410]

Cycled up this one a few times, near Rhayader.

http://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?rf=3473

www.strava.com/segments/7993218

 

[Tin Pot]

Coll de Rates, Alicante, Spain.

 

[RedRider]

Hah.

I grew up living/cycling on that stretch of road

Coming down Devonshire road on my mates "racer" with failed brakes was an experience

Nice area! As mentioned later in the thread the actual col is the one you reach by turning right at the other end of Devonshire Rd. Right where you crest with the Horniman rising to your right and Sydenham Rise going up to the left.

Myself, @ianrauk and @rb58 managed to bag another of the south east's rare cols on the way back from Brighton earlier this month. It's on the A23 cyclepath as you go past Pyecombe.

Flicking through Graham Robb's book there's a nice run of eight cols in 18 miles in the lovely sounding Malvern Hills which I'm thinking would be a great stretch to take in on a longer route from London to Liverpool that's beginning to take shape in my mind.

 

[Mr Celine]

Hard to go anywhere round here without going over a col. Today's one, the Swire.

 

[RedRider]

Hard to go anywhere round here without going over a col. Today's one, the Swire.


View attachment 348508
View attachment 348509

Magnificent. Swyre/Swire/Swire seems a common name for Borders' cols. Is yours the one near Peebles above Kirkton Manor?