The cagers come out!

[Flying_Monkey]

I tend to ride very defensive although I am surprised at the positioning and can see what trouble it can bring.I will not criticise someone who rides the way they are used to/happy with.

I tend to agree... there's a difference between assertive and bloody-minded and (as I've said before) I think Magnatom does occasionally cross the line. That's campaigners for you and you gotta love 'em (having been one myself, I have to say this!).

In this instance, I really don't see what the problem is - it seems like a normal commute to me, he does appear to be cycling a long way out for no particularly good reason (though that might be the effect of the view from the camera). Cyclecraft is a good book in many ways, but it isn't very good on psychology. To be as safe as possible and keep your own and others' stress levels down you have to walk (well, ride) a line between its advice and what seems to be suitable in any situation. And if there is an on-road cycle lane (not one that is on pavements or some random location) I will use it.

I do think there's a danger of playing to one's own camera to a certain extent too - we've had discussions here before about how much filming everything alters behaviour both of the wearer and the filmed. I am not sure if it is a solution or just adds to the problem of distrust and incivility in the long term.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

Yeah I tend to agree with FM. I don't want to hold anyone up and if I can help them to get past me without inconveniencing myself then I will. It's courtesy. If you don't do this then you're more liable to encounter animosity and idiocy.

But the embedded mentality of someone in a car needing to get past any bike they see and asap will always prove that to be safe sometimes you have to ride in a seemingly discourteous way.

eg last Friday for me.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Urban driving increases levels of aggression, annoyance and decreases peoples' propensity to be rational. I don't think you are ever going to get a driver to change their mind or be reasonable by arguing with them in the road however right you are...

 

[Jacomus-rides-Gen]

I quite agree with cycling politely - in fact one of my other videos shows me moving out of the way to let a car past me before tackling a slow section where he couldn't have overtaken me.

I don't think that riding with the camera changes my behaviour, and I certainly do not seek confrontation just to film it.

I disagree with your onroad cycle lane comment FM, yes it is there and was rather wide, BUT it was full of debris and the wind meant that I got blown into it fairly regualarly, but still had room between me and the curb.

I was overtaken by loads of cars on that commmute, all of them behaving perfectly decently, and some going out of their way to make sure they could cross the centreline properly to overtake me.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I don't think that riding with the camera changes my behaviour, and I certainly do not seek confrontation just to film it.

I don't know about you in particular, but I'd be very surprised if it didn't, especially as you post videos up for comment and therefore are very much aware of having the camera on, and I would also be very surprised if it didn't change the nature of the interactions you have with others, and not always for the better.

I disagree with your onroad cycle lane comment FM, yes it is there and was rather wide, BUT it was full of debris and the wind meant that I got blown into it fairly regualarly, but still had room between me and the curb.

Ok, I'll take your word for it...

 

[Jacomus-rides-Gen]

I don't know about you in particular, but I'd be very surprised if it didn't, especially as you post videos up for comment and therefore are very much aware of having the camera on, and I would also be very surprised if it didn't change the nature of the interactions you have with others, and not always for the better.

The reason I got the camera was to have it recording when I was riding alone, so that should I get attacked by a car again, I might have some way of prooving what happened.

If something happens like those close shaves, they are both annoying and dangerous, not to mention totally unneccessary agression from cagers. I put them up on youtube, not through some wish for them to do any good, because cagers won;t change their behaviour, but in the hope that someone who drives / knows the driver in any of the clips can see it and get aggrivated by it.

I am patiently waiting for a comment with someone getting all shirty and telling me to take their car off youtube etc etc. That will be a joyus day indeed

I don't stand for bullying. The roads aren't a playground where I can kick them in the balls, kneel on their neck and tell them that if they EVER do that again I will seriously hurt them.

So in my own little electronic way, I do that. Just more remotely, and less violently.

Ok, I'll take your word for it...

Good.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

The reason I got the camera was to have it recording when I was riding alone, so that should I get attacked by a car again, I might have some way of prooving what happened.

If something happens like those close shaves, they are both annoying and dangerous, not to mention totally unneccessary agression from cagers. I put them up on youtube, not through some wish for them to do any good, because cagers won;t change their behaviour, but in the hope that someone who drives / knows the driver in any of the clips can see it and get aggrivated by it.

I am patiently waiting for a comment with someone getting all shirty and telling me to take their car off youtube etc etc. That will be a joyus day indeed

I don't stand for bullying. The roads aren't a playground where I can kick them in the balls, kneel on their neck and tell them that if they EVER do that again I will seriously hurt them.

So in my own little electronic way, I do that. Just more remotely, and less violently.



Good.

 

[gbb]

I tend to ride very defensive although I am surprised at the positioning and can see what trouble it can bring.I will not criticise someone who rides the way they are used to/happy with.

My thought exactly.
I sympathise JRG, drivers dont feel the power of the wind, dont realise debris causes problems etc etc. But......as i said, if i were coming up behind you....and i consider myself a proficient and confident cyclist...i'd wonder why you appeared so far into the road.
Its also difficult to reconcile the fact its your road as well as drivers (i'm talking generally here ), but they deserve respect and space to manoever safely as well. Its a balancing act, trying to be safe and seen...but not impeding everyone else at the same time. I find i have fewer problems when i DONT assume primary too much. Primary has got me into more trouble on several occasions, simply because a driver is DETERMINED to get through and sod my welfare You cant do anything about those berks.

I'm a realist...not an idealist.
Ideally, the world would be a fine place, and everyone will respect your place on the road.
The reality is, the roads are busy, people are sh1t (peds, cars, even some cyclists...believe it or not ) and the good book (cyclecraft, not the Bible) wont always have all the answers to get you home safe...because not everyone (drivers) knows or cares about the rules of the road.
Be flexible is the answer...it seems to serve me well.

 

[BentMikey]

Cyclecraft is a good book in many ways, but it isn't very good on psychology. To be as safe as possible and keep your own and others' stress levels down you have to walk (well, ride) a line between its advice and what seems to be suitable in any situation.

This bit makes me think you're just not very familiar with Cyclecraft, or have simply misinterpreted the book. I've posted topics a couple of times, and no-one has managed to come up with *ANY* situation where Cyclecraft is wrong. Most of the time when I see anti-cyclecraft comments, it's a "Don't tell me how to cycle, I'm VERY experienced and my ego won't take it" kind of thing.

 

[bonj2]

because cagers won;t change their behaviour, but in the hope that someone who drives / knows the driver in any of the clips can see it and get aggrivated by it.

I am patiently waiting for a comment with someone getting all shirty and telling me to take their car off youtube etc etc. That will be a joyus day indeed

fwiw, that's the exact philosophy behind barryboys site ... albeit it it's cosmetic modifications as opposed to bad driving they're putting up and trying to solicit an angry response for. I think there's a site set up for just that aim relating to bad driving, something like reportthatdriver.com or something, but i'm not sure it has such a cult following.

 

[magnatom]

I tend to agree... there's a difference between assertive and bloody-minded and (as I've said before) I think Magnatom does occasionally cross the line. That's campaigners for you and you gotta love 'em (having been one myself, I have to say this!).

Sorry I am bit late with this one!

No offense taken, but I am curious. In what way do you think I cross the line FM? I probably come across as more assertive and bloody-minded than I actually am on the road. Remember I only post incidents and these tend to happen in a number of incident hot spots on my commute. Where I know there is a risk of trouble I will take the primary position.

However, for a lot of my commute I do try and go out of my way to let cars pass, let vehicles pull out of junctions etc.

As I am sure you are aware FM you do come across as a little condescending, although I am sure that isn't your intention.

 

[Tynan]

This bit makes me think you're just not very familiar with Cyclecraft, or have simply misinterpreted the book. I've posted topics a couple of times, and no-one has managed to come up with *ANY* situation where Cyclecraft is wrong. Most of the time when I see anti-cyclecraft comments, it's a "Don't tell me how to cycle, I'm VERY experienced and my ego won't take it" kind of thing.

what does cyclecraft have to say about helmets and hi viz?

 

[col]

I too tried to understand why the cycle lane wasnt used,for quite a lot of when it was available,i probably would have,but there were a couple of times i wouldnt have.Drivers seeing a cyclist, cycling outside the cycle lane ,when there doesnt seem to be a reason why,will get wound up,and probably react in a negative way to the cyclist,even though i see the value of primary,in this case,at least half of those close passes could have been avoided.

 

[Jacomus-rides-Gen]

But what about the wind!!!

I know the video shows me riding in pretty much straight lines, but the crosswind meant business, would come out of nowhere and blow me a good foot sideways in either direction - cycling in the cycle lane could have easily seen my wheels touch the curb, followed in short order no doubt by my body.

 

[BentMikey]

what does cyclecraft have to say about helmets and hi viz?

You jest, but in fact it's not very different from my own position.