The Birds

[rich p]

In some parts of France ortolans are a delicacy! Savages, I say.

 

[gbb]

So we all condemn out of hand entire races of people because they indulge in ONE thing we dont agree with eh ?

I've lived, holidayed and worked with Cypriots and i'll tell you, i prefer their way of life, their family values, relaxed attitude and their welcome to a relative stranger...to ours any day.

You should be ashamed . ( i know we were talking about Maltese, but i assume the distinction doesnt stop there.)


Come on guys, get real.

 

[laurence]

that from the person who says a species are growing out of hand because you've seen a lot of them?

pot kettle black

 

[gbb]

that from the person who says a species are growing out of hand because you've seen a lot of them?

pot kettle black

Yes but Laurence, i'm entitled to an opinion. There is NO connection between the two opinions.
It is my opinion that there are a lot of Magpies in Peterborough, compared with ZERO magpies 20 years ago. Thats a fact.
Does it make me want to kill them ...NO.
Would i (or did i) encourage someone to kill them...NO

It's an opinion....no more. Just because it doesnt concur with yours, does'nt mean its not valid.

The Spanish shoot wild boar, the Cypriots, Maltese and Italians shoot wild birds, the British shoot deer, game, waterfowl, rabbits.....whats normal in some countries is not in others. I wont condemn a whole race just because they indulge in one activity i disagree with...they are fine people.
Please note, i dont agree with the practice. I dont condone it and i dont see the point in it. But i dont agree with condemning people out of hand.

Fcuk me....whats so briliant and perfect about being British. Hardly the flawless models of upright behaviour are we !!!!!

Look deep enough, you'll find flaws in everyone....even me

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

Yes but Laurence, i'm entitled to an opinion. There is NO connection between the two opinions.
It is my opinion that there are a lot of Magpies in Peterborough, compared with ZERO magpies 20 years ago. Thats a fact.
Does it make me want to kill them ...NO.
Would i (or did i) encourage someone to kill them...NO

It's an opinion....no more. Just because it doesnt concur with yours, does'nt mean its not valid.

The Spanish shoot wild boar, the Cypriots, Maltese and Italians shoot wild birds, the British shoot deer, game, waterfowl, rabbits.....whats normal in some countries is not in others. I wont condemn a whole race just because they indulge in one activity i disagree with...they are fine people.
Please note, i dont agree with the practice. I dont condone it and i dont see the point in it. But i dont agree with condemning people out of hand.

Fcuk me....whats so briliant and perfect about being British. Hardly the flawless models of upright behaviour are we !!!!!

Look deep enough, you'll find flaws in everyone....even me

Once we depart from the absolutist principle that all killing of animals and birds is wrong, it becomes an issue of what is acceptable. There are issues about killing things to eat when they are rare, but at least the need to eat is understandable. However, the Maltese kill neither for pest control or culinary purposes. It is simply because they enjoy killing. This could be overlooked if they were killing something like rats, because of the overall benefits. However, they are bent on slaughtering rare migrating birds and this is simply unacceptable.

 

[wafflycat]

Arch...you know that taking of chicks is a natural instinct...just as taking carrion is...just because theres plenty of carrion, doesnt mean they wont take chicks. Its like expecting cats not to kill birds because you feed them. No...the point i was trying to make is the abundance of magpies means their impact on bird populations is out of proportion.

Indeed. I've seen how magpies go after chicks of other birds. A house I used to live in:- back garden had a huge ivy growing up over a brick garden wall. Every year that spot was used by blackbirds for nesting. This particular year the male blackbird valiantly defended its next against a magpie that would attack every day - every damn morning I'd be worken by an avian battle going on out there. The male blackbird defended his brood successfully for a week. Then one morning I saw the battle going on and what was left. Every single chick from the nest on the lawn. Each one speared through the neck and left on the lawn. Not taken for food, just taken out of the nest, one at a time, speared through the neck & left on the lawn. Yes, it's 'natural' but it isn't pretty and it isn't entirely about food either.

 

[laurence]

Yes but Laurence, i'm entitled to an opinion. There is NO connection between the two opinions.

my point was that you condemn people for damming a nation based on a small percentage, yet you base your views on magpies based on a small catchment area. if you read the RSPB report on magpies you'll see that they recovered from persecution, hence the increase in numbers... much the same way as Red Kites and other BoP. in an area where they were heavily persecuted (rural areas) that would be more noticeable. i haven't seen an increase as they've always been around.

my opinions are low on every human, it's then up to them to prove me wrong. most don't.

waffly... the trouble with magpies, blackbirds and robins is they are all fiercely territorial. a blackbird will try and drive away anything near to its nest and magpies like approx 12 hectares (apparently) of area when breeding. when chicks arrive the fight for food starts.

that's pretty tame compared to owls - deliberately staggering hatching of young so the older chicks can eat the small siblings if there's a shortage.

birds can be pretty ugly at times! no need to mindlessly slaughter them though.

 

[wafflycat]

I don't think I suggested any slaughter, let alone a mindless one. I don't think anyone on the forum is advocating 'mindless slaughter' but neither should we think that because something is a bird, they are harmless. But that's the natural world, it isn't always as pretty as it appears to be on the surface.

 

[gbb]

Your sentiments are to be applauded laurence...Dont think i approve of the culling of birds, but simply that there is a problem in certain circumstances or areas.

I did read the quotes you posted, and for the most part, i already knew it and agree with them.
But i'm a realist. The worlds an ugly place, nature is ugly and so can people be.

I could say the same of some of the comments here(not i assume, said by yourself)...shoot the b'stards etc etc..its just the same as you accuse me of.
ie, defenders of certain species of birds suggesting the shooters should be shot....tantamount to saying its acceptable to murder someone because you dont like their lifestyle choices.
Its outrageous...and it smacks of almost nazi thinking. What the fcuk is this country coming to when someone can suggest the murder or serious injury at least, of someone who doesnt fit your ideals. (not aimed at you personally laurence, but contributors in general)
If that language was used in a terrorist sense, you'd have government agencies descend on you like a ton of sh1t.

You suggest people are crap in general...yet do you honestly agree that saying such things is acceptable.



Enough of that anyway...

Heres a question....
Dislikeable as the practice is...is it illegal for Maltese, Italians, Cypriots etc to shoot these birds ?. Actually illegal.
I ask, because its also my belief that, unless ABSOLUTELY NECCESSARY, i dont feel i have the right to interfere in others peoples business. Perhaps i'm old fashioned. I was raised to be tolerant and understanding. There's not much of either in this world nowadays.....

 

[laurence]

my comment about shooting the egg thief was in response to the idea that it's ok to shoot magpies as they are a omnivorous pest that raids eggs.

the mindless slaughter goes on in certain countries. much to do with tradition and machismo. as for it being illegal, who knows? if you can define something as a pest it's open season. if a species is protected, then it would be illegal and as some of the birds regularly being shot are endangered raptors, then i'd assume that was illegal - but so long as we're waging a war on terror there's little chance of anything being done. "you may as well ask a man to change the colour of his eyes"

people are crap. humans have an arrogant belief that they are entitled to kill other species, so it's no wonder murder is so 'common'. war is easy, you aim a missile and "blam". our leaders care for human life, so why should the people? tolerance is dead - that went with the war on terror. man has never been tolerant.races hate races, religions hate religions, etc. my hope is that when we destroy the human race we'll leave enough of the planet for the surviving animals to enjoy.

 

[laurence]

an example of mindless slaughter... the passenger pigeon. flocks would blacken the skies over the US plains. hunters would go and blast away with delight.

now extinct.

 

[gbb]

Ah well laurence, i have no desire to 'fight' with you...i do rather get stuck on points of principle, rather than the issue itself.

No problem, it'd be boring if we were all ants or the borg, without our own thoughts, feelings and differences.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

Heres a question....
Dislikeable as the practice is...is it illegal for Maltese, Italians, Cypriots etc to shoot these birds ?. Actually illegal.
.....

Yes. In most cases, it's been illegal under their domestic laws for many years. However, it is also covered by European legislation which is based on the sound principles of not shooting during Spring migration (which is highly damaging to populations) and limiting the type of shooting that can be done otherwise to species that are not endangered.

 

[col]

This is a very interesting thread,my in laws have two magpie nests regularly in their garden,and also an abundance of songbirds,even nesting in close order to each other,but iv not seen attacks yet,even though every chance i get im watching the goings on of all these birds.My father in law,regularly feeds the bird,with loads of different things,and its this i think that leads to the status quo,as there is no need for the normal feeding that occcurs in nature,so everyone is fed and happy,but there is a lot of singing,as in warning others to stay away,but all this happens in a garden that isnt very big in the whole scheme of things.As for culling,i think it has its place,if for example the magpies started killing all the other smaller birds in the garden as a way of claiming territory,then i would get an air rifle,even though the magpie is one of my favourite birds,i wouldnt let them silence an area,just to claim territory that has been happily shared for years.Nature can be ugly,but its the way of the wild,but as its not a natural place,ie man made to attract birds,then i wouldnt let one type push others out.If it was natural,id leave it to its own devices.

 

[gbb]

Yes. In most cases, it's been illegal under their domestic laws for many years. However, it is also covered by European legislation which is based on the sound principles of not shooting during Spring migration (which is highly damaging to populations) and limiting the type of shooting that can be done otherwise to species that are not endangered.

That then, is different.
One of my 'ethics' in life is to try not to condemn others for behaving in a way i may disagree with...not poking your nose in to others business is one way of putting it.
I dont like people who do it to me...therefore i try not to do it myself.

But, if it's illegal, it's illegal, end of. I assume there are bodies who try to make sure the laws are enforced....with little success i assume.