The Armstrong/USPS doping thread

[yello]

Imo, the thread had started to unwind. My intention with 'Armstrong Charged and Banned' was only ever to discuss the USADA action. Topics well covered in the past were being introduced and battle lines formed over them. What had been a generally amicably debated and on-topic discussion was in danger of being soured. So I feel it was right to bring it to a close.

I appreciate the desire to talk about other related and/or broader issues, that can be done in other threads.

 

[mickle]

I've never felt the need to say this before - but closing the Armstrong threads is a very poor moderating decision. There may well be 'more important things' happening in pro cycling. But that's no justification for closing the thread.

That it acheived 2000+ posts can hardly be described as 'very little discussion'.

 

[rich p]

I'm ambivalent. It certainly needs discussing, and I'm pretty sure it will be, but that thread was derailed by some pretty earnest trolling.
Closing it, however, is heavy-handed moderation. For some of us, this is the biggest story in cycling and I don't particularly like someone else telling me that it isn't. I'll decide what I think, thanks.
The thread could have been resurrected if the Mods had stepped in and warned a couple of the posters to alter their behaviour.

 

[TheDoctor]

I'm with Mickle on this - I'd never have closed a live thread with over 2000 posts.
Not the right decision IMHO.

 

[Crackle]

As this is moved to feedback, here's mine.

The Armstrong thread was very much a current thread, it's very much a current issue and one of the biggest in cycling since I started following the sport in 1984, closing it is not the right thing.

There are problems in the thread and repeated circular arguments, well, quite honestly, you mods know why that is and the people involved have a history of trolling threads, normally helmet threads. If you want to moderate the thread, tackle the source of the problem. No thread in racing has been closed until those posters got involved and they have nothing of any note to add, so ban them from the thread, in fact ban them from racing, no one cares for their opinions anyway. It's not the first time threads have been derailed by them, they're just two people who don't like to lose a debate and resort to flooding it with the same old tripe even when it's been refuted. Ban them, that's the proper decision and re-open the thread.

 

[MacB]

It shouldn't have been closed and I really don't care for mods expressing their opinion on what is valid for others to discuss or whether they think something is interesting or relevant. Under those criteria there are so many threads that could be closed it's ludicrous.

If a thread bores you then don't visit it, if you get complaints about it then deal with the specific complaint and post/s.

IMO we have a resident troll who is allowed to destroy thread after thread for his/her own pedantic amusement. If the mods aren't smart enough to deal with that then they certainly aren't smart enough to decide what the rest of us should deem worthy of discussion.

Of course if Shaum wants to close something then his house his rules but let's not try and cloak this as something other than an expression of a few individuals personal preferences.

 

[400bhp]

This was in the last comment on the thread:

The matter has been decided.

What does that mean?

 

[martint235]

I hope I'm not one of those labelled as trolls, if I am I never intended to be but I admit to being pedantic.

However on this idea, I think it's worth noting that most discussions (and negotiations) have a level of repetition and a cyclical nature. Can you imagine the Good Friday Agreement if someone had come in after 6 weeks and said "Right guys, you're not saying anything new anymore. Let's wrap it up and all go home".

 

[thom]

I hope I'm not one of those labelled as trolls, if I am I never intended to be but I admit to being pedantic.

However on this idea, I think it's worth noting that most discussions (and negotiations) have a level of repetition and a cyclical nature. Can you imagine the Good Friday Agreement if someone had come in after 6 weeks and said "Right guys, you're not saying anything new anymore. Let's wrap it up and all go home".

Not sure it has to be like that - I think it is to do with the mindset of the personalities involved.

I guess I have various question to the Mods:
Has the whole subject been banned from discussion and does it mean that any kind of drug abuse related story is off the radar ?
Would mods prefer this to be discussed in a different section, like Current Affairs ? If not in the Pro cycling section, where ?

It is true that from my side, there is little worth debating. I'm interested in following a story with it's ongoing revelations, how they relate to current people in the sport and how the future of the sport will be shaped. I have learnt an awful lot from the people on this forum.

But there is little worth debating for a variety of reasons, firstly because opinions are so polarised and incompatible and secondly because in fact none of us have any bearing on the case.
What concerns me is that the same can be said about the Current Affairs forum as a whole.

 

[black'n'yellow]

The thread could have been resurrected if the Mods had stepped in and warned a couple of the posters to alter their behaviour.

I had this exact same issue on a different thread. I think some of the moderators clearly need to re-acquaint themselves with the meaning of the word 'moderate' - locking threads should be a last resort, not a default option...

 

[PpPete]

I'd just like to record my own disappointment at the closure of such a popular thread. I rarely participated in it, but read it daily, and learned a lot from it.

 

[Norm]

Feel free starting a new thread in racing if something 'new' ever does appear.

The subject isn't banned, the feelings on this thread are that only new revelations should appear and the 2,350 post thread was not a good reflection on many of the posters, it certainly was not just one troll.

The problem is that Armstrong has become a religion, with few facts and plenty of faith amongst the believers and the non-believers. And, like most religions, the believers and the non-believers can't understand that anyone can hold a different opinion to their own and, in the absence of facts to support either position, express that frustration through violence.

 

[Cheddar George]

I didn't contribute to this thread but i did read a lot of it as it developed and some of the information linked to it, like most threads there are superficial posts that you skip past. You should not lock a thread because it does not meet some undefined standard of debate.

 

[black'n'yellow]

The problem is that Armstrong has become a religion, with few facts and plenty of faith amongst the believers and the non-believers. And, like most religions, the believers and the non-believers can't understand that anyone can hold a different opinion to their own and, in the absence of facts to support either position, express that frustration through violence.

So you are saying there was aggression and violence in the Armstrong thread?

 

[MacB]

The subject isn't banned, the feelings on this thread are that only new revelations should appear and the 2,350 post thread was not a good reflection on many of the posters, it certainly was not just one troll.

The problem is that Armstrong has become a religion, with few facts and plenty of faith amongst the believers and the non-believers. And, like most religions, the believers and the non-believers can't understand that anyone can hold a different opinion to their own and, in the absence of facts to support either position, express that frustration through violence.

Which is your opinion Norm and that's fine, what's not fine is deciding that it will be everyone elses opinion as well.

If a thread breaks the rules then moderate the infringement or lock it. If you just don't like it, don't see the point or don't think it's going anywhere then you can avoid reading it. Just like many people will do with things like tea threads, say something about the poster above, etc, etc.

As for what you consider to be a good/bad reflection on individual posters, again that's you opinion....but if rules aren't being broken then that's exactly what it should remain...your opinion.