The Amazon & Visa fallout

[Arrowfoot]

They are clearly aiming to shoehorn their Amazon Pay to their customers. It will start with VISA, followed by

By creating an "issue" with Visa Credit Cards you can get half of your customer base to switch to debit cards with a possible reduction in chargebacks. It is also interesting that the announcement appears to refer to UK issued Visa cards, ones that are covered by the CCA.

Chargebacks rules are the same for credit and debit. Debits fees are much cheaper. Amazon in recent weeks have introduced processing fees for VISA Credit Cards in countries where regulators are inactive or the Banking industry is too small to fight back.

Its not going to stop here. They are taking on the UK because it is not longer under EU and Amazon no longer have to fear EU renown for its anti-trust regulations and penalties.

 

[Drago]

I dont use them anyway.

 

[markemark]

I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't consider switching my credit card just for that one retailer that I use maybe half a dozen times a year.

Many people were already dubious about using Amazon due to their tax avoidance, and for those people if they have Visa cards, this could be the final kick to stop them buying there.

This is totally a "cut off your nose to spite your face" move from Amazon. Particularly since they are simply lying when they claim it is all because of the higher fees, given that Mastercard raised their fees to the same level first.

Someone who uses it 6 times a year is of no Convern to Amazon. Many use it an awful lot more. Even the tiny number of responses here show that they’ll wait it out but will switch CC to continue. Amazon will win this.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

..Chargebacks rules are the same for credit and debit...

I am not sure if this is just a terminology thing but Sec. 75 refunds and voluntary refunds have very different rules.

Credit card transactions are subject to Section 75 Consumer Credit Act which makes the credit card issuer a party to the transaction and the card issuer jointly liable. So if you buy something on a credit card (over a certain value) and are unhappy you may get your money refunded and the seller get a charge back because the credit card issuer knows that they are a liable.

If you pay by debit card then the debit card issuer is not a party to the transaction so is not legally obligated to refund your money and the seller gets a chargeback. That such a process exists is the result of agreements between the issuer, your bank and Visa/Mastercard.

Because the legal obligations are different the policy of the card issuer may be different and from my experience it is. Of course a lot of stuff on Amazon doesn't trip the Sec. 75 threshold.

When paying by cheque, not much different to using a debit card, there is no process that allows you to say that you made the payment, are unhappy with the transaction and you want your money back. Well you can ask.

Bye

Ian

 

[Blue Hills]

Our prime subscription was due for renewal tomorrow, and have decided not to renew, we don't like being used as pawns.

As an aside, was I the only one who thought that the email was a scam? I only realised it was true when I heard it in the radio.

yep my first thought on getting the mail was that it was a scam - it took a while for the story to hit the news.
As someone says above, I can't help but think that a resolution will be reached.
I can see some senior folks at amazon and visa having a rather tense stand-off over christmas.

 

[C R]

Someone who uses it 6 times a year is of no Convern to Amazon. Many use it an awful lot more. Even the tiny number of responses here show that they’ll wait it out but will switch CC to continue. Amazon will win this.

We will not get a different CC just because amazon won't take ours, and we currently use amazon quite a bit, but that's going to change now. Even if things get sorted, we're not likely to get prime again.

 

[Blue Hills]

We will not get a different CC just because amazon won't take ours, and we currently use amazon quite a bit, but that's going to change now. Even if things get sorted, we're not likely to get prime again.

I'm inclined to agree with you - I don't want to get another credit card and don't want to use a debit card.

Aren't most things you might want off amazon also available on the bay somewhere or other?

 

[C R]

I'm inclined to agree with you - I don't want to get another credit card and don't want to use a debit card.

Aren't most things you might want off amazon also available on the bay somewhere or other?

Yep, pretty much all the cheap tat can be had equally easily from the bay, for books we have been using bookshop.org since it launched, and the rest can be found elsewhere with little effort. The only reason for using amazon was the convenience of everything in one place, but if they will not take our money we'll spend it elsewhere.

 

[yello]

Banks always seem to push for the highest charges they can get away with it seems, until they are forced to lower them either by commercial pressure or government policy.

Amazon, the peoples champion!

 

[markemark]

Visa’s share price is down 5% and Amazon is up 0.4%. As of today the market favours Amazon to win the battle.

 

[Blue Hills]

Visa’s share price is down 5% and Amazon is up 0.4%. As of today the market favours Amazon to win the battle.

wouldn't read much into that - markets twitch several times a day.
I'd pay no more attention to that than the blokes doing the shell game on westminster bridge.

 

[Alex321]

Someone who uses it 6 times a year is of no Convern to Amazon. Many use it an awful lot more. Even the tiny number of responses here show that they’ll wait it out but will switch CC to continue. Amazon will win this.

I don't think the responses here show that at all. There are more saying they won't change card than saying they might.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

I am a very low volume user of Amazon but they are great for some retailers who don't want to do ecommerce.

For example I needed a new mains adaptor for a Rega Ear headphone amplifier, people who sell this sort of thing don't "do" web ordering, partly because of the very low volume and partly because of snobbery. But they can sneak a bit of ecommerce out there on Amazon without "damaging" their main site "as it is clearance stock " and not have to worry about how to send a package.

So my once every two years usage probably won't change.

For me this whole episode makes Amazon look greedy/a bully, especially when looking at their fees for third party sellers. h t t p s ://sell.amazon.co.uk/pricing?ref_=sduk_soa_priov_n#referral-fees had to tweak the link to stop the forum software showing a big advert.

7% on computers is a huge fee when you consider typical marks as everybody is selling the same stuff.

 

[Tenkaykev]

I am a very low volume user of Amazon but they are great for some retailers who don't want to do ecommerce.

For example I needed a new mains adaptor for a Rega Ear headphone amplifier, people who sell this sort of thing don't "do" web ordering, partly because of the very low volume and partly because of snobbery. But they can sneak a bit of ecommerce out there on Amazon without "damaging" their main site "as it is clearance stock " and not have to worry about how to send a package.

So my once every two years usage probably won't change.

For me this whole episode makes Amazon look greedy/a bully, especially when looking at their fees for third party sellers. h t t p s ://sell.amazon.co.uk/pricing?ref_=sduk_soa_priov_n#referral-fees had to tweak the link to stop the forum software showing a big advert.

7% on computers is a huge fee when you consider typical marks as everybody is selling the same stuff.

Yes, as you said, there are a few of the larger organisations that have an Ebay " outlet " store. I bought a KoBo E book reader from the WH Smith outlet which was probably a return. Paid £39 for it and it was indistinguishable from new.

 

[yello]

I'm a low volume user too; maybe once every 18 months, and usually a book. So it kinda concerns me not and I can take a seat and watch with interest.

I would say though that I think some people don't realise just how big Amazon are, and how much sway they have. Sure, they know they are big, it's the 'how big' that's not fully appreciated. Their size and the influence they have does concern me. They could buy Visa and end the problem overnight! (joke, just incase anyone things I'm serious)