The 2021 'Bah Humbug' Christmas thread.. 🎅

[Blue Hills]

It is all fairly recent at least in Scotland. We did recognise it but very low key. When I was a postman I did a morning delivery Christmas day. New Year was our holiday time.

so I understand - all very curious - what was the reason? That period was I think well before the rampant rampant commercialism, so one might have thought that the religious tradition would be to the fore - i mean cripes in some bits of scotland until quite recently sundays were totally dead - pretty much nothing moved.

 

[KnittyNorah]

so I understand - all very curious - what was the reason? That period was I think well before the rampant rampant commercialism, so one might have thought that the religious tradition would be to the fore - i mean cripes in some bits of scotland until quite recently sundays were totally dead - pretty much nothing moved.

I remember staying in a b&b just outside Oban (IIRC) with a boyfriend in the early 1970s; there was a piano in the parlour with a black-framed notice on it reading 'only sacred music to be played on the Sabbath Day'. I wore a cheap finger-staining 'wedding' ring as a sop to the hide-bound hospitality industry of half a century ago. It did me sterling service all across Ireland, the UK and parts of Europe!

 

[Fat Lars]

Our next door neighbours were well into the whole Christmas thing with their family and friends invited round for party fare. They said to us that between Christmas and the New Year HAHAHA HOHOHO we should just come round for a few drinks if we felt like it. We weren't too keen on the idea but didn't want to upset them. So on the 29th December we got ourselves psyched up and knocked on their door about 8.00pm. They opened the door and virtually closed it again in our faces as they were obviously not in the party mood and were totally unprepared. There was no one else there. The moral here is if you don't mean it then don't say it.

 

[Blue Hills]

I remember staying in a b&b just outside Oban (IIRC) with a boyfriend in the early 1970s; there was a piano in the parlour with a black-framed notice on it reading 'only sacred music to be played on the Sabbath Day'. I wore a cheap finger-staining 'wedding' ring as a sop to the hide-bound hospitality industry of half a century ago. It did me sterling service all across Ireland, the UK and parts of Europe!

I stayed in a B&B in Stornaway late 80s or very early 90s with a gfriend.
We may even god forbid have had communion of a non religious nature in the room.
Came downstairs to a very frosty atmosphere on sunday morning from the woman who ran the B&B - it was very noticeable though I didn't really understand it.
I also remember the "orange juice" at breakfast - seemed like some very very diluted cordial to me.
Was this punishment or just meanness? who knows?
Then wandered round the town Sunday morning and the swings in the children's playground were locked at their chains.
I well remember posting this memory somewhere and someone claimed that I had imagined it.
I damn well didn't - I mean how many times in my life had I ever seen swings chained up?
Also went in a charity/second hand bookshop - there were some damn dodgy books in there - damning folk - maybe particularly jewish.
Western isles are beautiful, must go back on a bike, but I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to live there during that period.
(I also remember on a campsite a notice telling us not to hang any washing out on the sabbath as it would offend some folk/cause issues for the site owner)

@oldwheels was clearly allowed to tramp around/work on the lord's extra special day though.
all very strange

(but whoever expected logic from religion?)

 

[oldwheels]

so I understand - all very curious - what was the reason? That period was I think well before the rampant rampant commercialism, so one might have thought that the religious tradition would be to the fore - i mean cripes in some bits of scotland until quite recently sundays were totally dead - pretty much nothing moved.

In the bits dominated by the Free Church and it's various offshoots plus the Free Presbyterian Church, graven images are regarded with suspicion and musical instruments are not found in such churches.
Hymns are not used either, only psalms but the singing can be quite melodic and mostly led by a Precentor [and that is the correct spelling]
The Church of Scotland who are more liberal varied according to area but the Church of Rome who celebrated Christmas was regarded with horror in all cases.
There is a lot to be said for the Day of Rest and many non adherents mourn it's passing.
There was also a strong connection between politics and religion.
Some of my ancestors were Covenanters and many fled to the Low Countries for protection. One was imprisoned on the Bass Rock for his beliefs.
I was brought up in the Free Presbyterian tradition so can understand the strong feelings and can fit in anywhere with confidence.
Books have been written on the subject of religion in Scotland so I will not attempt to go further.
The celebration of New year is of pagan origin as is Christmas but it marked a definite turning point in the calendar, unlike Christmas which marks nothing of significance which happened on that date.
The actual birth date celebrated is open to doubt.

 

[Drago]

Merry Christmas Everybody is a hymn.

 

[oldwheels]

I stayed in a B&B in Stornaway late 80s or very early 90s with a gfriend.
We may even god forbid have had communion of a non religious nature in the room.
Came downstairs to a very frosty atmosphere on sunday morning from the woman who ran the B&B - it was very noticeable though I didn't really understand it.
I also remember the "orange juice" at breakfast - seemed like some very very diluted cordial to me.
Was this punishment or just meanness? who knows?
Then wandered round the town Sunday morning and the swings in the children's playground were locked at their chains.
I well remember posting this memory somewhere and someone claimed that I had imagined it.
I damn well didn't - I mean how many times in my life had I ever seen swings chained up?
Also went in a charity/second hand bookshop - there were some damn dodgy books in there - damning folk - maybe particularly jewish.
Western isles are beautiful, must go back on a bike, but I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to live there during that period.
(I also remember on a campsite a notice telling us not to hang any washing out on the sabbath as it would offend some folk/cause issues for the site owner)

@oldwheels was clearly allowed to tramp around/work on the lord's extra special day though.
all very strange

(but whoever expected logic from religion?)

Swings were chained but when you go to a foreign country surely it is only polite to try to not cause offence.

 

[Blue Hills]

In the bits dominated by the Free Church and it's various offshoots plus the Free Presbyterian Church, graven images are regarded with suspicion and musical instruments are not found in such churches.
Hymns are not used either, only psalms but the singing can be quite melodic and mostly led by a Precentor [and that is the correct spelling]
The Church of Scotland who are more liberal varied according to area but the Church of Rome who celebrated Christmas was regarded with horror in all cases.
There is a lot to be said for the Day of Rest and many non adherents mourn it's passing.
There was also a strong connection between politics and religion.
Some of my ancestors were Covenanters and many fled to the Low Countries for protection. One was imprisoned on the Bass Rock for his beliefs.
I was brought up in the Free Presbyterian tradition so can understand the strong feelings and can fit in anywhere with confidence.
Books have been written on the subject of religion in Scotland so I will not attempt to go further.
The celebration of New year is of pagan origin as is Christmas but it marked a definite turning point in the calendar, unlike Christmas which marks nothing of significance which happened on that date.
The actual birth date celebrated is open to doubt.

thanks for the background oldwheels.
am no fan of "the church of rome" but the two glorying under the name of "free" (from rome amongst other things I imagine) don't sound like a barrel (organ?) of laughs either.
I must say my sunday there felt anything but free.
I also remember that there was nothing happening at the harbour either - no ferry sailings - but I think they loosened up on that quite a few years ago.

 

[Blue Hills]

Swings were chained but when you go to a foreign country surely it is only polite to try to not cause offence.

not sure what you mean by this oldwheels.
I had no intention of swinging on any swings, I just observed it - I think I was a bit old for swing swinging - other pleasures available - see above.

 

[oldwheels]

thanks for the background oldwheels.
am no fan of "the church of rome" but the two glorying under the name of free (from rome amongst other things I imagine) don't sound like a barrel (organ?) of laughs either.
I must say my sunday there felt anything but free.
I also remember that there was nothing happening at the harbour either - no ferry sailings - but I think they loosened up on that quite a few years ago.

Free meant freedom from the dictat of government imposed religion.
My wife had Lewis connections and I had Sutherland connections on my mother's side and Covenanters on my father's.
The teuchters did not lack humour and in many cases were very "liberal' in their youth but when they returned home they tended to go back to the religion of their parents. Coming at them from the inside so to speak I got a totally different response than an outsider would.
Out on the moors there were shebeens where you could get a tipple any time if you were on the inside.
Remember these were not parochial people and most were well travelled and many had lived in other countries before returning home to retire. The aged bodach tottering down the road could well have been in a highly placed job before retiring and it is is as well not to make unwise assumptions or you risk getting your nose on a plate.
It is not so long ago that we had no Sunday ferries here and nobody but the Settlers were bothered. It was nice to know that there was a bit of peace to be had. When we had a shop we never opened on Sunday.

 

[oldwheels]

not sure what you mean by this oldwheels.
I had no intention of swinging on any swings, I just observed it - I think I was a bit old for swing swinging - other pleasures available - see above.

You seemed to imply that you had caused upset, probably I admit due to ignorance of local convention.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I also remember that there was nothing happening at the harbour either - no ferry sailings - but I think they loosened up on that quite a few years ago.

The reason we had to stay two overnights in Oban was precisely because there were no ferry sailings! My boyfriend was Australian and even though I had told him, repeatedly, what it would be like in parts of Scotland, he was totally unprepared as he simply didn't believe me - which he had the grace to apologise about later!

 

[Blue Hills]

You seemed to imply that you had caused upset, probably I admit due to ignorance of local convention.

I did nowt to cause upset to anyone.
Not sure what local customs you are implying I flouted.
Hell I didn't do any washing (not that I need much encouragement to neglect that) on the sabbath.

Thread has taken an interesting turn I must say.

Am warming more to the banishment of religion from Christmas (and the rest of the year) though.

 

[Blue Hills]

The reason we had to stay two overnights in Oban was precisely because there were no ferry sailings! My boyfriend was Australian and even though I had told him, repeatedly, what it would be like in parts of Scotland, he was totally unprepared as he simply didn't believe me - which he had the grace to apologise about later!

Not sure what we did the rest of the dead sunday in stornoway - don't think the plan had ever been to sail away that day anyway so probably had a lucky planning escape - guardian heathen angel looking over us - I think we probably drove off out of town, maybe to that campsite with the admonishing notice about washing. I maybe have a vague memory of wondering what I was actually allowed to do on the sabbath. Drive?
Thinking abiout it, the dodgy charity bookshop (it was religious as I recall) must have been on a day other than sunday - quite probably on a return there later in the week to sail away. I do definitely remember that some of the books were so dodgy I felt that I should protest/make my feelings known.

have a happy christmas all - may your god go with you - as the great Dave Allen used to say back in the much maligned 70s.

 

[potsy]

Just remembered, I am going to a Christmas weekend on Friday which includes a 'Christmas' lunch on Saturday 4th December!
I will try not to be too miserable whilst eating it