TFL e-bike ban

[mjr]

Do Great Northern Rail own the stations?

They operate and manage stations and trains. What they say goes, on local Network Rail property, as far as the ordinary public is concerned.

Now you show anything from Network Rail that bans e-bikes, please, if you weren't posting imaginary bans.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Thanks for the info from someone with more experience with such things. Which laws are those? Only BTP or TfL too? Can they seize a random unlabelled untested fire-risk battery not related to a bike?

Well the sticker comes from the EAPC law, its on here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...cles-eapcs-in-great-britain-information-sheet So I'd expect if someone was stopped, and asked to show that sticker if they didn't have it then the bike can be seized.

What has happened to the bike between the sticker being applied and today is anyone's guess, and TFL staff aren't qualified or have the time to examine each individual machine.

You can even buy these stickers or plates should you feel like indulging jn a bit of fraud-by-false-instrument.

There is no sensiblemor realistic means to establish what may be a legal, u damaged,properly maintained and unmodified ebike, so total exclusion is rhenknly way.

I've seen those stickers, you can buy them on sites next to the 'Vaccine Exempt' cards and 'I am Service Lion' collars

But in all seriousness there is a way to establish. I had a diagnostic done on my bike recently, its something most IT Techs should be able to do as its plugging a USB lead between my bike and a laptop then running some software. I'm looking at the report now and it lists some important points like Type = Pedelec and Max Speed For Support = 25km/h.

If bikes were seized, and examined, its incovenient for the owner but they'd get the bike back. BTP and TFL probably (I have no proof of this) just decided that they don't have the resources to do that so a blanket ban just seems like grabbing the lowest hanging fruit and calling it a win.

 

[mjr]

There is no sensiblemor realistic means to establish what may be a legal, u damaged,properly maintained and unmodified ebike, so total exclusion is rhenknly way.

Which isn't what they've done. Folding e-bikes remain allowed. Maybe it's not the hinge that makes them safer, but the user being richer and able to spend more on the e-bike and on spending money chasing TfL for compensation if unjustifiably obstructed from travelling with less than a week's warning?

 

[classic33]

They might claim that but I doubt it would stand up when there are other steps they could take which would both seem to reduce the risk more and also not have the same discriminatory impact. In the words of the law, that's pretty obviously "such steps as it is reasonable to have to take to avoid the disadvantage".

That should be enough to make any service be less stupid and first try banning bad batteries rather than all e-bikes, but Transport for London are also subject to the extra Public Sector Equality Duties to "advance equality of opportunity" and "foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not" that they seem to be violating here by demonising e-bike users including those who use them to adapt to their protected characteristics.

How do they know what is, let alone test for bad batteries?

As for banned from Network Rail property, the signs were seen in Leeds station.

 

[Drago]

They might claim that but I doubt it would stand up when there are other steps they could take which would both seem to reduce the risk more and also not have the same discriminatory impact. n't be surprising to find it wasn't all that comprehensive.

What other steps can they take? Are they reasonable? Indeed are they even pradtixal?

That other organisations have done similar and escaped a horse whipping suggests their justification has a sound legal footing. After all, a disabled person's dodgy ebike going up makes just as much mess and danger as an able bodied person's will.

Nevertheless, you might be right, but there simply are scenarios where they can do this. If you don't make that FOI request your speculation remains as just that , and you can't argue your way past mere speculation.

 

[wiggydiggy]

How do they know what is, let alone test for bad batteries?

As for banned from Network Rail property, the signs were seen in Leeds station.

Interesting, I'll have a look next week. Mind sharing where - on the main concourse, near a platform?

My Battery was tested in my diagnostic, the numbers there are two that stick out - Serial Number and Software Version. I'm presuming those two should tally up in some kind of database to perhaps show wether it has been tampered with or not. Seize the bike, take it away and test then return or destroy it.

 

[classic33]

Interesting, I'll have a look next week. Mind sharing where - on the main concourse, near a platform?

My Battery was tested in my diagnostic, the numbers there are two that stick out - Serial Number and Software Version. I'm presuming those two should tally up in some kind of database to perhaps show wether it has been tampered with or not. Seize the bike, take it away and test then return or destroy it.

Main platform bike storage area. Platforms 4 & 5, not platforms normally used, but delayed and cancelled trains lead to me using platform 5.

 

[vickster]

Email from TfL

 

[wiggydiggy]

Main platform bike storage area. Platforms 4 & 5, not platforms normally used, but delayed and cancelled trains lead to me using platform 5.

Cheers. I used to use Platform 1 area but not for many years.

 

[mjr]

Main platform bike storage area. Platforms 4 & 5, not platforms normally used, but delayed and cancelled trains lead to me using platform 5.

And, to be clear, were you sure the signs were banning them from that bike store, the whole station, or all Network Rail property?

I think I've seen e-bikes with downtube batteries be banned from some bike storage abroad because the rack design didn't allow enough space for the supersized downtube, but I don't remember if it was actually signed as an e-bike ban or a downtube size limit.

 

[mjr]

How do they know what is, let alone test for bad batteries?

How do they know what is, let alone test for being an e-bike? This is almost certainly going to be tested, similar to how the notorious southeastern bike ban decades ago was tested to destruction by people wrapping their bikes in brown paper or bin bags and calling them parcels.

With batteries, train companies could set some reasonable parameters to minimise risk: for example, say it needs a label with some of the usual safety markings, and an intact closed case.

 

[mjr]

What other steps can they take? Are they reasonable? Indeed are they even pradtixal?

Ban unapproved batteries. Yes, it's reasonable and indeed, it's a damn sight more practical than this stupid ban that only applies to non-folding bikes.

That other organisations have done similar and [...]

What other organisations? I'm not convinced Network Rail have really done this to more than part of one station yet.

If you don't make that FOI request your speculation remains as just that , and you can't argue your way past mere speculation.

I can make the request for the review (even if I'd hope that some journalists might have done that to see if it passed the laugh test), but I probably don't have standing to challenge the stupid ban.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Ban unapproved batteries. Yes, it's reasonable and indeed, it's a damn sight more practical than this stupid ban that only applies to non-folding bikes.

Then you have to define what an approved battery is

every make does it differently - and it would be easy to copy the stickers and stuff

You need to put yourself into the place of a harassed employee trying to work out whether or not this bike is allowed at rush hour on a Monday morning in the rain

Folding or not folding is easy

approved battery or not
or correct sticker (which is on the bottom on my bike and often covered in mud)

is less easy and open to an argument

 

[Regular.Cyclist]

A hospital in Edinburgh recently put one a message to all staff banning e-bikes being taken into the building or parked up anywhere near it. It’s not just dodgy e-bikes, it’s people sourcing iffy battery packs to replace OEM ones that no longer hold a good charge.

 

[Jenkins]

My bikes got that sticker, stating it is as legal EPAC. My battery has additional safety stickers thay any li-ion battery has. If it doesn't have them, or is using them without being compliant, then there are existing laws to seize the bike that British Transport Police can use

If you stick the phrase "e bike 250w sticker" into Ebay, you get 365 results from around £3 upwards. Having a sticker is no guarantee of legality these days.