Telescopic Baton

[classic33]

Telescopic batons have their own little foibles, inasmuch as it is illegal to make, sell or supply one, and has been since 2004, so unless you owned one before then, you're unlikely to be able to get hold of one anyway.

Not as unlikely as you may think.
http://www.niton999.co.uk/shop/category_show_Batons.html
One of a few selling them, legally in the UK.

It's a designated offensive weapon:

Home - yes, but how will you even get it home without you or someone else commiting the offence?

On your person in public - Offence whether visible or concealed.

Correct me if I have this part wrong. A set of kitchen knives, as used by a chef, would/could be classed as "offensive weapons". but they are required for their work as a chef. That is a lawful reason for carrying them. Also a lawful reason would be the fact that you have just bought a complete set of such knives & are on your way home with them.

I went through the centre of Bradford, Forster Square Station to the Interchange, a few years ago with a slasher, something a bit like this...

and was never stopped for carrying it. Stopped so they could examine the contents of my rucksack, but not this.
Removing the medication required from a side pocket required me to get a homemade note saying what it was for out of my pocket. This meant I'd to hand this to the other officer to hold. Other than asking where it had been bought, no comments were passed on it or the fact that I was carrying it, in public.
Didn't have too many people coming near me though. Can't work out why!

 

[Night Train]

Many years ago when the Trafford Centre was first built there was an indoor market place where John Lewis is now. There was a tool stall there and I went in to do some shopping one Saturday.
I bought a tree felling axe and the stall holder apologised for not having a bag to put in in.
No problem, I'll just take its it is. So out I walked, back towards my car in the Regent carpark, with the axe over my shoulder.

Walking back through the Trafford Centre towards Debenhams was an interesting experience, the crowds parted like the Red Sea for Moses.

 

[Cubist]

Not as unlikely as you may think.
http://www.niton999.co.uk/shop/category_show_Batons.html
One of a few selling them, legally in the UK.


Correct me if I have this part wrong. A set of kitchen knives, as used by a chef, would/could be classed as "offensive weapons". but they are required for their work as a chef. That is a lawful reason for carrying them. Also a lawful reason would be the fact that you have just bought a complete set of such knives & are on your way home with them.

I went through the centre of Bradford, Forster Square Station to the Interchange, a few years ago with a slasher, something a bit like this...
View attachment 14582
and was never stopped for carrying it. Stopped so they could examine the contents of my rucksack, but not this.
Removing the medication required from a side pocket required me to get a homemade note saying what it was for out of my pocket. This meant I'd to hand this to the other officer to hold. Other than asking where it had been bought, no comments were passed on it or the fact that I was carrying it, in public.
Didn't have too many people coming near me though. Can't work out why!

Chef's knives are a tool of the trade, so he does indeed have good reason, but they are not an offensive weapon per se. An offensive weapon per se, such as a baton, can never be possessed in public under any circumstances.

The Niton 999 link sells batons to law enforcement agencies, hence the restricted flag next to them in the picture. Try ordering one and see how far you get. They can be lawfully possessed by a person with a Home Office certificate. We have to be re-certified in their use every year.

 

[classic33]

Chef's knives are a tool of the trade, so he does indeed have good reason, but they are not an offensive weapon per se. An offensive weapon per se, such as a baton, can never be possessed in public under any circumstances.

The Niton 999 link sells batons to law enforcement agencies, hence the restricted flag next to them in the picture. Try ordering one and see how far you get. They can be lawfully possessed by a person with a Home Office certificate. We have to be re-certified in their use every year.

I have done just that, payment taken, now awaiting delivery.

 

[classic33]

I can always fall back on the market at the bottom of 'Uddersfield(near Tesco's). There's a stall that sells them, or two stall at Leeds open air market. Over the road from the police staion, there they's two stalls that sell them.

 

[Drago]

One other wee problem with weapons. Well, 2 really.

Clubs, bats, batons etc are of limited utility indoors where you probably won't have room to deploy and swing them without striking a wall, ceiling etc.

The other problem is if Johnny Scumbag is bigger than you, and you're not skilled with the weapon, he's going to take it off you and give you a good poke with it. The old adage "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" is LOB. "Tge bigger they are, the harder they hit you" is the one you should work by.

 

[machew]

However, if you need something then how about a one handed baseball bat, or a golf club?

 

[Drago]

Chef's knives are a tool of the trade, so he does indeed have good reason, but they are not an offensive weapon per se. An offensive weapon per se, such as a baton, can never be possessed in public under any circumstances.

The Niton 999 link sells batons to law enforcement agencies, hence the restricted flag next to them in the picture. Try ordering one and see how far you get. They can be lawfully possessed by a person with a Home Office certificate. We have to be re-certified in their use every year.

They have to be re certified in their use as per the standards of their organisation. There is no lawfully set limit. In our force its a year, in a neighbouring force it's 18 months. In TVP it's monthly, and a friend of mine who's a close protection officer for the Home Office also has to put in a couple of hours every month.

 

[Drago]

However, if you need something then how about a one handed baseball bat, or a golf club?

Unless you're skilled in its use as a weapon i seriously wouldn't bother. More often than not it ends up round Johnny Householders skull.

 

[vernon]

I can always fall back on the market at the bottom of 'Uddersfield(near Tesco's). There's a stall that sells them, or two stall at Leeds open air market. Over the road from the police staion, there they's two stalls that sell them.

That fact that you can buy them doesn't legitimise their ownership.....

 

[classic33]

One other wee problem with weapons. Well, 2 really.

Clubs, bats, batons etc are of limited utility indoors where you probably won't have room to deploy and swing them without striking a wall, ceiling etc.

The other problem is if Johnny Scumbag is bigger than you, and you're not skilled with the weapon, he's going to take it off you and give you a good poke with it. The old adage "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" is LOB. "Tge biggerthey are, the harder they hit you" is the one you should work by.

When used in its correct sense it holds true.
"bigger they are, the harder they fall
Prov. When prominent people fail, their failure is more dramatic. After the newspapers reported that the mayor cheated on his wife, he lost the election and he can't get any kind of job. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Jackson used to be very wealthy, but he lost every cent in the stock market crash. The bigger they are, the harder they fall."

 

[classic33]

That fact that you can buy them doesn't legitimise their ownership.....

But in all four cases, three stalls & the order placed, they will have been legally purchased.
Knives are a restricted item in many stores & going in & trying to buy one wouldn't be allowed in most places. And since we're coming to the silly season, fireworks wise, how many have & will be sold contrary to either the Fireworks Act or the Firearms & Explosives Act, both of which cover the sale of fireworks.
A few years ago I was able to walk into my local B&Q & pick them(batons) off the peg/shelves with no questions asked when they legally sold them to me(payment taken). Asked for proof of age for the Stanley knife though.

Me, so long as I have a police force where senior officers have lied or cannot be bothered doing the work they are paid to do along with those on the street! telling me that what I had done to me is part of the job, I'm willing to defend myself. If those who are paid to uphold the laws of this land cannot be bothered their a.se, then where does that leave the rest of us!!

 

[Drago]

The FBI did some research about 20 years back. They wanted to know the most effective techniques to teach their agents ton protect themselves so they researched and analysed every violence report for a year, which is a lot.

Sure enough, there were individual examples of where a weapon or special skills have an advantage, but the only factor that gave a consistently above average chance of success was... Muscle mass! Big lads consistently slap down small ones. Kinetic and potential energy, sheer physics, is your friend.

In 23 years of booking on burglaries I have only encountered 2 examples out of the many hundreds where Johnny Householder had taken on Johnny Scumbag and won. One was a Royal Marines Sergeant, a big mofo at home on leave, and the other was a Grant Mitchell type who I'd not want to take on myself.

I've never been to a job where a resident had successfully deployed a weapon in their defence. At best it's been ineffective, at worst they've been relieved of it and had it used on them.

As a general rule, unless you're a big sod it have particular skills, time spent trying to face down Johnny Scumbag is time better spent trying to get the hell out.

 

[Dan B]

a telescopic baton

Isn't that just another name for a Zefal HPX?

 

[martint235]

Isn't that just another name for a Zefal HPX?

How weighty is the Zefal?

The OP was a semi serious question. Twice in the last month, I've found myself in a situation where my size hasn't proved to be intimidating enough. Nothing has come of these situations but....

As SWMBO keeps pointing out, I'm not getting any younger and it's quite a few years since I hung up my black belt for the last time. I must admit I am very prone to putting my bike down and yanking on car door handles so maybe calmness should be my aim.