Team Sky, Brailsford and doping

[Strathlubnaig]

Don't see why Sky would lie....but it is a bit odd timing wise!

easy there, boo, that attitude sounds similar to the way some people could see no wrong doing by Lance.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good afternoon

I have mixed feelings about Sky’s purge.

The Sky team is an employer and the riders and team personnel employees, they may have service agreements that say they are contractors or some other fudge using service companies but by most peoples standards they are employees.

If you accept that the actions that Sky are taking are good, then surely you have to accept that your employer, if you are employed, has the same right to ask you similar questions.

When you take a job, you decide if you like the T&C, if you want a job in the defence industry you have to accept security vetting, but these terms are made clear at the start of the application process. When you take a job you enter into an agreement with the employer, it is not a one way arrangement, Sky appear to be unilaterally changing the T&C of employment.

So what level of questions would you be prepared to accept if you went into work tomorrow and you employer said we are probing into everyone’s background and if you don’t answer the questions, bye, bye?

The “Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act” was created to allow people with various minor and not so minor convictions to reintegrate with society with the concept of Spent Convictions. Depending upon the sentence passed Spent Convictions are those which occurred between 0 and 10 years ago, when asked about if you have any criminal convictions it is permitted to so no if the convictions are spent. For non special case employers is usually a criminal offence for an employer to ask if an individual has a Spent Conviction.

So you potentially have an interesting position, if a person supplied a rider with drugs in such a way that a criminal offence took place and he collected a criminal conviction then he can say No to the questions being asked by Sky anyway.

Bye

Ian

 

[jdtate101]

Good afternoon

I have mixed feelings about Sky’s purge.

The Sky team is an employer and the riders and team personnel employees, they may have service agreements that say they are contractors or some other fudge using service companies but by most peoples standards they are employees.

If you accept that the actions that Sky are taking are good, then surely you have to accept that your employer, if you are employed, has the same right to ask you similar questions.

When you take a job, you decide if you like the T&C, if you want a job in the defence industry you have to accept security vetting, but these terms are made clear at the start of the application process. When you take a job you enter into an agreement with the employer, it is not a one way arrangement, Sky appear to be unilaterally changing the T&C of employment.

So what level of questions would you be prepared to accept if you went into work tomorrow and you employer said we are probing into everyone’s background and if you don’t answer the questions, bye, bye?

The “Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act” was created to allow people with various minor and not so minor convictions to reintegrate with society with the concept of Spent Convictions. Depending upon the sentence passed Spent Convictions are those which occurred between 0 and 10 years ago, when asked about if you have any criminal convictions it is permitted to so no if the convictions are spent. For non special case employers is usually a criminal offence for an employer to ask if an individual has a Spent Conviction.

So you potentially have an interesting position, if a person supplied a rider with drugs in such a way that a criminal offence took place and he collected a criminal conviction then he can say No to the questions being asked by Sky anyway.

Bye

Ian

Part of my Job see's me having bi-annual random drugs tests. Failure to provide a sample or to fail a test is grounds for termination of employment. Such terms and conditions are not unusual. For example most people will find a termination clause in their contract for drink driving if their job is dependant upon them travelling for work using a car (eg travelling salesman).

I don't think SKY is changing it's terms, it's always had a zero tolerance policy, but what I suspect is that most people at the team are on fixed term contracts (ie 12months or 2yrs) and that they adjust the terms when the contracts come up for renewal. Also most employment contracts state that the employer reserves the right to change the terms in agreement with the employee, but can also be done forcefully without consent. You see the government doing this everyday to people's pensions, pay and conditions.

 

[tigger]

Those are interesting points you raise there. It's hard for me to know how a similar approach in my company would be received. Depends what they are asking I suppose. From my own point of view I don't have any criminal convictions or anything to hide, so it probably wouldn't be a big issue for me.

In Team Sky's case, I think they were clear right from the outset that this was a zero tolerance / history team. All they are asking is for people to reaffirm that and sign something to state this. (Makes me wonder why they never did this in the first instance? - hindsight? ) But it's interesting from an employment law point of view.

 

[montage]

easy there, boo, that attitude sounds similar to the way some people could see no wrong doing by Lance.

who?

 

[Orbytal]

If SKY are announcing it as they have a requirement to interview etc I would assume it is not part of T&Cs and they are asking for acceptance to change/alter contracts.

Outcomes

1 I doped I confess and have contract paid and move on to make more in my year than envisaged. Doper rewarded.

2 I did not dope or confirm not as feel safe and get no enhancement for it. Clean not rewarded.

3 I did not dope and don't like dopers getting paid more than me. My clean status is therefore valuable to SKY so I deserve more money. Clean rewarded.

Any other options or anyone know if clean riders etc got extra for their approach?

 

[Strathlubnaig]

Part of my Job see's me having bi-annual random drugs tests. Failure to provide a sample or to fail a test is grounds for termination of employment. Such terms and conditions are not unusual. For example most people will find a termination clause in their contract for drink driving if their job is dependant upon them travelling for work using a car (eg travelling salesman).

I don't think SKY is changing it's terms, it's always had a zero tolerance policy, but what I suspect is that most people at the team are on fixed term contracts (ie 12months or 2yrs) and that they adjust the terms when the contracts come up for renewal. Also most employment contracts state that the employer reserves the right to change the terms in agreement with the employee, but can also be done forcefully without consent. You see the government doing this everyday to people's pensions, pay and conditions.

If Sky have always had a zero tolerance policy in terms of a person past history as well as the future then how come they have hired Fabio Bartalucci ? They have moved the goalposts or never paid attention in the first place, pick one.

 

[jdtate101]

If Sky have always had a zero tolerance policy in terms of a person past history as well as the future then how come they have hired Fabio Bartalucci ? They have moved the goalposts or never paid attention in the first place, pick one.

I was just stating their policy as published, if they selectively choose to apply it, that's on them. Don't shoot the messenger!!

 

[thom]

Skyfall : nobody expected the inquisition

 

[Muguruki]

So why has Alex Dowsett (Armstrong is still a legend) moved to Movistar?

 

[thom]

So why has Alex Dowsett (Armstrong is still a legend) moved to Movistar?

Speculate as much as you like but this was a deal done months ago.
edit - rereading, maybe not clear that my point is this move is not a consequence of Sky's interviews due to USADA's report on LA

 

[Flying_Monkey]

So why has Alex Dowsett (Armstrong is still a legend) moved to Movistar?

Because he will be their designated TT rider, I expect. He would be behind Wiggins and Froome at Sky.

 

[Muguruki]

Initially when I heard I thought good move and then I remembered Dowsett saying after the USADA report came out
"He is still a legend of the sport. A guy who had cancer came back and won the Tour de France,"

 

[Strathlubnaig]

So why has Alex Dowsett (Armstrong is still a legend) moved to Movistar?

£ ?

 

[Strathlubnaig]

Rapha have introduced extra kit to team sky