Team BKool CycleChat

[JacobSkovsgaard]

Were you using your Bkool Pro?
View attachment 397463

Yes

 

[Whorty]

Spotted at my first ever Zwift race... is it possible to do anything without being caught
I didn't know how it worked, so it was just Fullgazz. I spend way too much time in front while the others just drafted on me. At the sprint I guess they used some magic and beated me. I dont know what powerup is or works. I just know I was strongest, but riding stupid and didnt knew the tricks
Ended at 4,96 w/kg, so no penalty
I much better like bkool (when it works correctly)

From the few races I've done on zwift I've learned the strongest rider doesn’t always win. Tactics is very important, such as sitting in the draft of others. Having the right power up, and using at the right time is also key.

For a first race, losing an A race only on the sprint is very impressive!

 

[CXRAndy]

Yes

Its bit of a guess, that would give you around 360-390W on a Direto/Kickr/Neo or crank power meter That would bring your W/Kg to ~4.2 so wouldn't get flagged as unusual. Carl has alluded, drafting, tactics a bit of knowledge of the course play a big part in Zwift. The draft isnt obvious like Bkool so careful positioning is key to getting the max benefit. Excellent result, if you keep getting flagged in these short sprints Zwiftpower will exclude you.

 

[Brendan Parker]

@Whorty @BILL S, I completed the last CG ride on Friday eve but it still not showing just wondering if it still needs approving?
Cheers

 

[Brusgaard]

@Whorty @BILL S, I completed the last CG ride on Friday eve but it still not showing just wondering if it still needs approving?
Cheers

The League ended yesterday, so it might be too late for approval? Pers ride from yesterday doesn't show either.

 

[bridgy]

Its bit of a guess, that would give you around 360-390W on a Direto/Kickr/Neo or crank power meter That would bring your W/Kg to ~4.2 so wouldn't get flagged as unusual. Carl has alluded, drafting, tactics a bit of knowledge of the course play a big part in Zwift. The draft isnt obvious like Bkool so careful positioning is key to getting the max benefit. Excellent result, if you keep getting flagged in these short sprints Zwiftpower will exclude you.

You think that much of a difference? I guess it depends on how that particular trainer is behaving and the terrain of the ride, but when I did my ride on the Neo followed by the Pro, the watts on the Neo were only 22 watts/7% lower than on the Pro (and higher or virtually the same as 3 of the previous 4 races I'd done on the Pro). I'm not saying the pro doesn't exaggerate watts on Zwift - it does - but suggesting they would be 20% or more lower on a different trainer sounds a bit high to me - admittedly from my single experiment on the issue! I'd also add that Jacob's perfectly capable of doing in excess of 410 watts for 13 minutes based on his real life rides with power meter.

Bkool watts aren't anywhere near as exaggerated on Zwift as they are on Bkool itself remember.

 

[CXRAndy]

It doesnt seem linear the bkool watts compared to my kickr. From my little experiments around 80W difference. Bigger the bkool watts the larger the difference if you know what I mean

I doesn't really matter, other than being nosey as to his real power, very impressive non the less

 

[bobinski]

You think that much of a difference? I guess it depends on how that particular trainer is behaving and the terrain of the ride, but when I did my ride on the Neo followed by the Pro, the watts on the Neo were only 22 watts/7% lower than on the Pro (and higher or virtually the same as 3 of the previous 4 races I'd done on the Pro). I'm not saying the pro doesn't exaggerate watts on Zwift - it does - but suggesting they would be 20% or more lower on a different trainer sounds a bit high to me - admittedly from my single experiment on the issue! I'd also add that Jacob's perfectly capable of doing in excess of 410 watts for 13 minutes based on his real life rides with power meter.

Bkool watts aren't anywhere near as exaggerated on Zwift as they are on Bkool itself remember.

Jacob is a bloody strong rider
Isn't the problem that bkool pro's are also inconsistent in zwift as well? I know what my experience was. A quick search under bkool on the Zwift riders fb page shows lots of issues re variability of power for perceived effort and an average 10-20% fall in power when switching to another turbo or using a pm with the pro. The consensus seems to be the flatter the course the greater the difference perhaps reinforcing what we have all suggested which is that the pro carries momentum even in zwift if you step off the gas while a PM or another accurate trainer will instantly or quickly react to the change and drop watts and therefore speed. I always said that once the gradient rises the difference reduces perhaps because momentum has less of an impact except that if you can spin rather than grind then the momentum still gives an advantage but it will perhaps be less than on the flat.
There are a lot of happy zwifters using the pro with a PM.

edit
I reckon the pro, even in zwift, flatters less powerful riders like me, especially those with less than perfect pedaling technique.

 

[Whorty]

@Whorty @BILL S, I completed the last CG ride on Friday eve but it still not showing just wondering if it still needs approving?
Cheers

Don't see anything there to approve @bert1971 ... as Brusgaard says, could be missing now as the league has closed. Sorry

 

[berty bassett]

I went on bkool with the pro for half hour once then jumped straight onto zwift without turning the pro off
This was before I knew any better and before I had done many rides in zwift so I didn’t realise what was happening
The Watts I had suppose to have been kicking out were unbelievable and were rightly picked up ( thanks bob )
It didn’t happen as bad if you turn the pro off and on again

 

[bridgy]

Jacob is a bloody strong rider
Isn't the problem that bkool pro's are also inconsistent in zwift as well? I know what my experience was. A quick search under bkool on the Zwift riders fb page shows lots of issues re variability of power for perceived effort and an average 10-20% fall in power when switching to another turbo or using a pm with the pro. The consensus seems to be the flatter the course the greater the difference perhaps reinforcing what we have all suggested which is that the pro carries momentum even in zwift if you step off the gas while a PM or another accurate trainer will instantly or quickly react to the change and drop watts and therefore speed. I always said that once the gradient rises the difference reduces perhaps because momentum has less of an impact except that if you can spin rather than grind then the momentum still gives an advantage but it will perhaps be less than on the flat.
There are a lot of happy zwifters using the pro with a PM.

I don't know Bob - I can only go by my own experience and the comparison with the ride on the Neo as a benchmark (which is probably a bit out of date now as I've improved my fitness since then). My point was just that based on my experience - a 7%/20 watt difference between Neo and Pro rides on the same course at the time - and the fact that Jacob can definitely do in excess of 410 watts for over 13 minutes in real life, the suggestion from Andy that his watts would be 20% or more lower on a PM equipped trainer seemed a bit excessive/unlikely to me that's all.

Andy's Pro must be acting differently to mine as his average race watts on his kickr look to be roughly similar to what I did on the Neo and I still don't get anywhere near 80 watts higher on the Bkool (I did get around 75 watts more than the Neo ride once, but it was a 14 minute race - couldn't have sustained this for normal length race of around an hour. And I came last in that race!)

As I've mentioned before, occasionally my Pro doesn't apply enough resistance and I need to turn off and on again - if I rode a full race without doing this it would be really obvious in the results! When working normally I find it reasonably consistent in terms of w/kg to be honest. if there are people not picking up on their trainers malfunctioning and not applying resistance properly, maybe this is the inconsistency? In my case, it's easily noticed and so far, easily fixed.

I agree that the watts show higher on the flat as you say, and are more accurate on a long climb (still haven't beaten that Box Hill time I did on the NEo!). I'm not sure ALL of the extra watts relate directly to extra speed either, as some of them are just the Pro reporting watts as you back off the power for longer than they should (as it interprets the wheel moving as watts whether you're pedaling or not). But if you stop pedaling on a Kickr or Neo, whilst your watts would drop off immediately, you don't come to an immediate stop, you maintain a bit of speed/momentum in the game as well (just with fewer or no watts being recorded).

 

[Whorty]

Jacob is a bloody strong rider
Isn't the problem that bkool pro's are also inconsistent in zwift as well? I know what my experience was. A quick search under bkool on the Zwift riders fb page shows lots of issues re variability of power for perceived effort and an average 10-20% fall in power when switching to another turbo or using a pm with the pro. The consensus seems to be the flatter the course the greater the difference perhaps reinforcing what we have all suggested which is that the pro carries momentum even in zwift if you step off the gas while a PM or another accurate trainer will instantly or quickly react to the change and drop watts and therefore speed. I always said that once the gradient rises the difference reduces perhaps because momentum has less of an impact except that if you can spin rather than grind then the momentum still gives an advantage but it will perhaps be less than on the flat.
There are a lot of happy zwifters using the pro with a PM.

edit
I reckon the pro, even in zwift, flatters less powerful riders like me, especially those with less than perfect pedaling technique.

I definitely have a B-watt advantage compared to the Kickr watts in Bkool compared to Zwift - higher in Bkool by about 15-25% but much closer in Zwift (maybe as low as 5-15% difference at maximum). In Zwift though (ignoring the 2 or 3 bizarre rides) I'm actually setting PBs now on my Kickr that were previous Pro PBs (certainly can't do that in Bkool). So I think Zwift is better modelling the Pro and it is more accurate.

Saying that, I've not done any of the bigger climbs yet so be interesting to see how that pans out!

I'm certainly not finding the Kickr that much harder in Zwift than riding on the Pro. But, on Bkool, the Kickr is definitely a lot harder than the Pro and I'm nowhere near as quick. The difference as I can see it is the transitions in Bkool for the Kickr massively impact the speed (compared to a Pro) but in Zwift the transitions even on the Kickr allow me to hold speed. Example being yesterday - in Zwift on flat sectiones I needed to push 250 watts to get to 40 kph, I could then ease off a bit to say 230 watts and hold that speed which would gradually drop down to 38kph. If I did the same in Bkool, as soon as I drop the power the speed instantly drops - it's almost like Bkool says, for these watts this is your speed, but in Zwift it says, given your current speed, and your watts, this is how your speed will gradually reduce.

Anyhoo ... it's all kind of guesswork without knowing exactly how the Bkool and Zwift algorithms work but so long as we're all having fun that's the key

 

[Whorty]

I went on bkool with the pro for half hour once then jumped straight onto zwift without turning the pro off
This was before I knew any better and before I had done many rides in zwift so I didn’t realise what was happening
The Watts I had suppose to have been kicking out were unbelievable and were rightly picked up ( thanks bob )
It didn’t happen as bad if you turn the pro off and on again

I always turn my Pro off and on again so maybe that's why I rarely saw strange figures in Zwift - only 2-3 times did I get very generous watts/speed and I didn't race those days at I would have destroyed everyone. Thankfully these were few and far between

 

[theboxers]

Here's my classic going south on a BRVR ride yesterday.

It starts showing some odd readings about an hour in. Then at about an hour 14 I get super powers. After that at an hour 22 it starts giving super low readings. It is now sitting on the side waiting for me to try to repair it again

 

[bridgy]

I definitely have a B-watt advantage compared to the Kickr watts in Bkool compared to Zwift - higher in Bkool by about 15-25% but much closer in Zwift (maybe as low as 5-15% difference at maximum). In Zwift though (ignoring the 2 or 3 bizarre rides) I'm actually setting PBs now on my Kickr that were previous Pro PBs (certainly can't do that in Bkool). So I think Zwift is better modelling the Pro and it is more accurate.

Saying that, I've not done any of the bigger climbs yet so be interesting to see how that pans out!

I'm certainly not finding the Kickr that much harder in Zwift than riding on the Pro. But, on Bkool, the Kickr is definitely a lot harder than the Pro and I'm nowhere near as quick. The difference as I can see it is the transitions in Bkool for the Kickr massively impact the speed (compared to a Pro) but in Zwift the transitions even on the Kickr allow me to hold speed. Example being yesterday - in Zwift on flat sectiones I needed to push 250 watts to get to 40 kph, I could then ease off a bit to say 230 watts and hold that speed which would gradually drop down to 38kph. If I did the same in Bkool, as soon as I drop the power the speed instantly drops - it's almost like Bkool says, for these watts this is your speed, but in Zwift it says, given your current speed, and your watts, this is how your speed will gradually reduce.

Anyhoo ... it's all kind of guesswork without knowing exactly how the Bkool and Zwift algorithms work but so long as we're all having fun that's the key

My experience of comparing the Neo to the pro on zwift sounds similar to yours with the Kickr @Whorty . Didn't feel radically different in terms of resistance. Watts were reported 7% higher on the Pro, but there was less than a minute's difference in time (of around 49 minutes). Zwift definitely do a much better job than Bkool of trying to level the playing field - which makes me sure Bkool could do a lot better! Clearly some of the problems people experience - on both platforms - are hardware issues too.