Team BKool CycleChat

[gbrown]

I've only compared my Powertap with my Bkool on the same rides, as in, sitting on the bkool with the powertap wheel and looking at both power figures at the same time. A few percent either way wouldn't bother me at all, but the bkool consistently displays power figures 20 to 30% higher than the powertap (on two different garmins), so it's clearly way out.

Speaking for myself, I'm just trying to lose body fat and get a bit better at climbing the longer steeper climbs, never going to race, and the FTP figures are just to give a vague sense of whether I'm making progress and whether I'm hopeless or not too bad for an overweight 50+ year old computer programmer!

 

[gbrown]

In addition to all of the above, the test protocol used will have an impact on the results, you should follow exactly the same protocol every time. If you are doing a 20 minute effort and then subtracting 5% in order to estimate your FTP, you must precede the 20 minute effort with an all out 5 minute effort.

I think some of you could do with picking up a copy of Hunter Allen and Andy Coggan's 'Training and Racing with a Power Meter" book, it should be quite helpful.

That's a good point about preceding the 20 minute test with an all out 5 minute effort, which I guess is to exhaust any Anaerobic Work Capacity before testing the Aerobic Threshold.

I'm reading the Allen and Coggan book at the moment, which is the only reason I know what AWC means!

Bill's Mountain Goats league stages are often good for comparing 1 hour+ all out efforts with 20 minute FTP tests. SO far, they've been in the ball park at least, which is all we're really looking for. Margin's of error are always to be expected and allowed for, never mind fluctuations in physiology and motivation.

Perhaps we should all assemble in "real life" at the bottom of Haytor Vale and see in what order we get to the top?

Geoff

 

[Darryn007]

I've only compared my Powertap with my Bkool on the same rides, as in, sitting on the bkool with the powertap wheel and looking at both power figures at the same time. A few percent either way wouldn't bother me at all, but the bkool consistently displays power figures 20 to 30% higher than the powertap (on two different garmins), so it's clearly way out.

Speaking for myself, I'm just trying to lose body fat and get a bit better at climbing the longer steeper climbs, never going to race, and the FTP figures are just to give a vague sense of whether I'm making progress and whether I'm hopeless or not too bad for an overweight 50+ year old computer programmer!

Here Geoff this will put you in the ball park and maybe help clarify some things as to what is going on - http://bikecalculator.com/
20-30% is way too much difference, one of the 2 (or both) are def out I think.

As for improvement, if your power output goes up and you are able to remain at the same heart rate you are improving that's as simple as it gets actually!

Hit training is one of the best things you can do for weight loss, so that would be the 3*8 min repeats and 6*2 min repeats - enjoy those
To improve your FTP its steady state intervals for 20mins at 80% of your FTP. Any higher than this and you are over training in my opinion. But feel free to experiment with that as everyone handles workload differently.

 

[Runexeter]

Perhaps we should all assemble in "real life" at the bottom of Haytor Vale and see in what order we get to the top?

Geoff

Now that would be a fun day out, tea and biscuits at the top

 

[BILL S]

Oooh this is heading into dangerous territory LOL!

My 2 cents-
The only place an FTP test could ever really be done and considered as 'accurate' is on a specifically calibrated indoor testing facility machine, whilst at the same time performing lactate threshold and aerobic threshold tests. Here in Belgium that'l cost you €50 but you leave with hard evidence in your hands.

You then go home and jump on whatever device you prefer for measuring effort, and ride flat out for 20mins - or an hour if you really want to do it as it is supposed to be done, and you then lay your results side by side and allow for the offset.

There is only 1 constant in any test result for me, and that is your Lactate threshold - if you don't show respect to this number it can seriously mess you up as I have experienced a few times haha

I need to start studying up on things like Lactate thresholds and so on. I hear people talk about these things but I don't really understand what they are.

I do pretty much all my riding on the basis of "If you want to ride fast, you have to train fast". I mostly just listen to what my body is telling me rather than getting technical. I agree that this is probably not the best way to do things but I'm a lazy git when it comes to reading up about and learning technical things (or any other things for that matter).

 

[Darryn007]

I need to start studying up on things like Lactate thresholds and so on. I hear people talk about these things but I don't really understand what they are.

I like to keep it simple as well-
So In other words, it's kinda like being in a canoe with a hole in it, you are able to bail the water, but when the water volume coming in is too much you will sink :P !
Or this way-
muscles produce watts which produce a by product lactic acid.
Lactic acid can only be broken down by oxygen = higher heart rate needed to transport the red blood cells (EPO story, but we wont go there!!).
As increased heart rate is a result of work output, you need to limit the time above your bodies oxygen carrying capacity by reducing the workload, if you don't you are in trouble...

 

[Pedro2015]

I've loaded in some hill repeats of a hill I tackle by mine Parbold hill. Going to have a session on it tonight and upload it to strava. By comparing the segment times ill know if the resistance is accurate or not

 

[BILL S]

I like to keep it simple as well-
So In other words, it's kinda like being in a canoe with a hole in it, you are able to bail the water, but when the water volume coming in is too much you will sink :P !
Or this way-
muscles produce watts which produce a by product lactic acid.
Lactic acid can only be broken down by oxygen = higher heart rate needed to transport the red blood cells (EPO story, but we wont go there!!).
As increased heart rate is a result of work output, you need to limit the time above your bodies oxygen carrying capacity by reducing the workload, if you don't you are in trouble...

I've usually found it possible to ride at a strong sustainable pace but I do remember in the dim and distant past getting it all wrong during some races and ending up collapsing on the ground mid-race and not even getting up to continue. Age and experience has changed all that. Always race your own race mtb or uphill. Always keep some for the end. Always best to average your power over the race. Interestingly I've managed to near destroy myself a few times recently on the bkool during short rides. Once recently at the velodrome (eh Geoff) and a couple of times on Salcombe hill. Each time I made it to the end but only just.

 

[Richylad]

Now that would be a fun day out, tea and biscuits at the top

Can I use my motorbike, I could be a Marshall

 

[BILL S]

Can I use my motorbike, I could be a Marshall

As long as you provide the bungee chords

 

[RichyRich75]

Now that I'll have to see!

I am planning on driving over and videoing the Salcombe climb to upload, as it seems to be a popular one, and at the same time I might try and grab Peak Hill on the other side.

It seems to me to be easier on the turbo, even allowing for improvements in training and some weight loss. When I did Salcombe Hill I had probably not warmed up enough (only did a little 6 mile warmup) but I was quite close to my best form and took over 10 minutes, and I gave it everything. If I went and tried again, I'd be very happy to beat 10 minutes and keep a little in reserve.

I think one reason why the steep climbs are easier on the turbo is that you are sat locked into the turbo, so nice and stable, and the bike remains level rather than pointing upwards at 20%, where the front wheel starts to wander.

I've done my c.9 mile Dipford Loop more times than I can count, including killing myself to get below 30 minutes, which I just missed. On Bkool I am faster, but some of this is not having to slow for the constant corners, junctions and traffic and of course, no wind. So a best time of around 25 minutes seems quite reasonable, and suggests it is quite realistic when applied to a rolling course with gradients no more than around 10%, and generally less.

But cutting > 10 minutes on the steep climb down to c. 5 minutes would imply that it struggles to properly recreate the really steep climbs.

But let me know if you get up it for real in half your previous time ...

Geoff

Yeah I do agree on the turbo struggling to recreate steep sections. Rode Alpe d'huez and the 29% bit wasn't as bad as I think it should have been! Like Run Exeter said I rode a loop on the turbo that we ride in real life and it did seem tougher on the turbo! In my opinion climbs would be easier in real life as you can use your, cough, cough, upper body strength in something that I believe is called dynamic climbing, ie pull on the handle bar on the side of the pedal downstroke. Not sure if that's purely a mountain bike trick tho, or if it affects your power output!

 

[gbrown]

you can use your, cough, cough, upper body strength in something that I believe is called dynamic climbing, ie pull on the handle bar on the side of the pedal downstroke.

upper body strength, don't think I've got one of those ...

 

[RichyRich75]

upper body strength, don't think I've got one of those ...

LOL! I'm having a right nightmare with my trainer! Rode a short one today at a 25 mph average, which doesn't seem quite right, then attempted to start an FTP test and it wasn't having any of it! A warm up session that seemed to be speeding up even tho I'd stopped pedalling and then wouldn't start clocking milage even tho I was pedalling! Anyone else had these problems? Wish I had £900 for a Kickr!

 

[Pedro2015]

Couldn't get near my pr on the Parbold climb so either I'm not as fit or bkool is harder than the real thing.

 

[Pedro2015]

Anyone have issues with races starting. Sometimes the warm up finishes and everyone else races off and my screen still says stop peddaling to start race despite me sitting still!!!!!!