T-boned a runner

[Arch]

Glad you are both all right, that's the important thing.



There is a variety in Surrey who initially react by moving to one side, but then decide they prefer the look of the other side of the lane and do a last minute switch. There is a more technically advanced version of this move where pedestrians move safely to opposite sides of the road, and then swap sides at the last minute. For extra mayhem there is also a 'release the dog' variant which I particularly like.

Out last week with some friends, ahead of us on the shated path were two ladies jogging, backs to us. Friend tinged his bell (a nice two tone ding-dong type) and one lady half glanced over her shoulder and moved to one side of the path. Her friend stayed put. We went between and the one who stayed put said "oh!" in surprise as we passed (at not very high speed, I suspect no more than 10-12mph-ish). If I'd been the lady who moved, I think I'd have troubled to make sure my companion knew there was a bike coming up behind, if I thought they hadn't heard the bell...

 

[domtyler]

I refer you the the bit in my original post where I mentioned that my Hope minis brought me to a halt. You may be able to infer something from that.

Often I find that the best way to behave with the foot brigade when they have their backs to you is to decide on your course and go for it, giving them as wide a berth as possible. Even when you give them fair warning, as I found out, there's no predicting which way they're going to go and they can change direction very quickly!

Ok, I'm not really having a go at you, after all the jogger was clearly at fault for this collision.

My only point is whether there was anything you could have done as a wise and experienced cyclist to have avoided it. Can I ask you whether if you were to faced with the same situation next weekend you would proceed in the same manner?

 

[betty swollocks]

I'm amused by the attitude coming across from some on here that pedestrians should keep out of a cyclist's way.

It's rather like the attitude of some drivers that cyclists should keep out of their way.

And we all know that's wrong

I'm not sure I agree.
In a collision with a pedestrian a cyclist stands just as much chance as being hurt.

In my case, I believe I took reasonable precautions, but no-one, unless they are clairvoyant can account for the wholly unpredictable. If they did, they'd not get up in the morning.
The runner was running with his back to me and I took as wide a deviation round him as the width of the road allowed, BUT, just as I was drawing adjacent with him, he cut across the road, without looking, presumably so he could run against the oncoming traffic, not that there was any. I was going the same speed roughly as a car. Had I been a car, he may have heard me, but I think we can be sure that had a collision ensued, he would have come off a lot worse.

 

[andy_wrx]

Sorry, my post wasn't really referring to you, Betty. We were posting at the same time, s'why mine comes out after yours, it wasn't intended as an answer to yours.

I'm saying that in general, particularly in Commuting, there's an attitude that pedestrians should get out of a cyclist's way.
If this were Runners World forum, or Ramblers Association, it would be about inconsiderate nutters on bikes.

On here it's all about 'cagers'.
If it were Max Power or SafeSpeed, it would be about bl**dy cyclists riding their bikes like they owned the road.

Seems to all groups, all other road users are in the wrong...

 

[gbb]

I'm amused by the attitude coming across from some on here that pedestrians should keep out of a cyclist's way.

It's rather like the attitude of some drivers that cyclists should keep out of their way.

And we all know that's wrong

You're right up to a point andy...but what about one persons responsibility for anothers safety.
Betty..and myself in my original incident MAY have failed to a degree....but only to a degree. In bettys case, i assume he was in as full control as he could be..UNTIL the jogger behaved in a way without ANY regard for the safety of others around him.
Cycles are nothing new..no noise is not an acceptable excuse for 'assuming' all was clear around him.

I'm sure it was a seconds loss of concentration by the jogger...sh!t happens, we all make mistakes. The possible outcomes from any potential incident are impossible to calculate..thats why sh!t happens.

From the description, Betty was behaving with due regard re the jogger.
Its the joggers lack of awareness and lack of regard for others safety that caused the accident.
At this point i just realised if i'm walking on a path and want to change direction...i look behind me. Simply out of respect for other path users and my own safety. If you dont, you risk colliding with someone. Thats on a path....
I'd say it was 90% the joggers fault, 10% bettys.

 

[betty swollocks]

Trouble is, there's too many of us around, many of whom are caused by accident.

 

[BentMikey]

More importantly, how's your lovely bike?

Interesting this topic. Anyone see the irony in how silent cyclists are perfectly acceptable on the road and expecting people to look before crossing, but any cyclist riding with music in is an idiot? This does rather give the lie to that argument, and proves that only looking properly is acceptable, hearing can never be more than a secondary sense.

 

[domtyler]

More importantly, how's your lovely bike?

Interesting this topic. Anyone see the irony in how silent cyclists are perfectly acceptable on the road and expecting people to look before crossing, but any cyclist riding with music in is an idiot? This does rather give the lie to that argument, and proves that only looking properly is acceptable, hearing can never be more than a secondary sense.

Come on Mikey, no one has ever argued anything else. Hearing adds a lot to your awareness on the roads even if it is secondary to sight. Why would you want to lose that?

 

[byegad]

We have a local jogger who jogs on left hand side of unlit roads dressed in black. After nearly hitting him in my car two weeks running I pulled up and wound down the window to suggest he would be safer on the right facing oncoming traffic and wearing something reflective at 11pm.
He told me to F! off! I still see him and Parp him but he has a death wish. The road is a twisting descent taken by me at 50mph and others at over 80mph. Time will tell but I keep expecting to see a local news report of his death.

 

[Arch]

We have a local jogger who jogs on left hand side of unlit roads dressed in black. After nearly hitting him in my car two weeks running I pulled up and wound down the window to suggest he would be safer on the right facing oncoming traffic and wearing something reflective at 11pm.
He told me to F! off! I still see him and Parp him but he has a death wish. The road is a twisting descent taken by me at 50mph and others at over 80mph. Time will tell but I keep expecting to see a local news report of his death.

For a while, when I was commuting out to the country, I saw a couple walking on the wrong side of the road, pushing a kid in a buggy. I told them once, and I saw a car pull up and the driver tell them, and eventually they moved to the right side. Perhaps just needs persistance, and more than one person telling him...

 

[betty swollocks]

More importantly, how's your lovely bike?

It's fine thanks Mikey. I rode the eight odd miles home with nothing else untoward happening. There were no clicks or creaks from the bike and it 'felt' fine.

I wonder whether the runner would have reacted differently in those final moments had I been on a 'normal' bike?

 

[barq]

I'm amused by the attitude coming across from some on here that pedestrians should keep out of a cyclist's way.

It's rather like the attitude of some drivers that cyclists should keep out of their way.

I don't expect pedestrians to get out the way (however much I might selfishly wish it), so if they do I'll always thank them. Actually that whole "get out my way" thing was one of the reasons I took the bells off my bikes. I think what puzzles me is when people (kindly) move to one side and then still manage to step out in front of you at the last minute.

 

[andy_wrx]

that whole "get out my way" thing was one of the reasons I took the bells off my bikes.

Oh I agree. Coming up behind someone and ringing a bell at them does smack of a Mr Toad like 'get out of my way'.

In the car, if you come up behind a gang of lads playing football in a residential road, you can give a quick toot on the horn to warn them you're driving through, rather than a loud and sustained blare of the horn - but this is more difficult with a cycle bell.

So I've come up behind pedestrians on towpaths, old railway lines, etc, shouted 'excuse me!' at pedestrians who are taking-up the whole path, they've seemed to hear me and move out of the way, but obviously not heard me as I've passed them and been met with a shower of abuse for not ringing my bell.

To the pedestrian, the cyclist is in the wrong for not giving them room.
To the cyclist, the pedestrian is in the wrong for getting in the way.

Just as motorist/cyclist interactions are always the other guy's fault !

Hell, we even fall out in the supermarket when some pillock rams their trolley into the back of your leg/some pillock stops dead right in front of your trolley.

 

[Arch]

Oh I agree. Coming up behind someone and ringing a bell at them does smack of a Mr Toad like 'get out of my way'.

In the car, if you come up behind a gang of lads playing football in a residential road, you can give a quick toot on the horn to warn them you're driving through, rather than a loud and sustained blare of the horn - but this is more difficult with a cycle bell.

.

It can be done though. My friend's bike had a ding-dong bell, when dealing with pedestrians he could just ding it once, when more noise required, he gave it a full hard ding-dong and it was much louder. Even with my little ping bell, I can give a single ping, or a more insistent pingpingpingping! Same with the other sort of bell, the traditional trinnnnnggggg sort...