Svendo down Again, Car pulled out from left AGAIN.

[Svendo]

I was on the way home after work on Saturday night, near home and a car turning right from a side road on my left looked left but didn't check back right well enough before pulling out into my path.I shouted (I do this a lot after my crash last year) and tried to go round the front but clipped his number plate and landed on my chin.
Turns out you can't plough tarmac with your chin, and I left a chunk of it in the road.
Girlfriend came down, he called an Ambulance, which we cancelled as GF took me to A&E. Got chin dressed and 8:30 appointment with Plastic Surgery in Bradford on the sunday. Got home 4:15am then up at 6:15am for GF to drop me at Bradford Hospital before she went to work for 8am in Wakefield. Surgeon said they could do a graft in the future but it'd be likely to be unsatisfactory, and ultimately leave a larger scar.
The bike is mostly OK, front wheel needs truing, scrapes on handlebar and saddle, gear hanger needed straightening (do this hot or it'll snap) but otherwise ok. I've some scrapes and bruises but nothing else too bad.

This is on the way home from Bradford with the dressing. GF has the gory version from A&E on her phone.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Sorry to hear of this new scrape. At least neither you nor the bike is seriously damaged.

Chin up!


GC

 

[raleighnut]

GWS

 

[Svendo]

I want to moan as I was contacted by the police on the night to organise an RTC report, and they rang back the morning after and again this morning to check I was still coming in (I said I'd do it sunday but didn't know how long id take in Bradford so put it off until today.)

This morning the bloke that rang said Todmorden Police Station is open today so I could go there, it's walking distance.
I went and the enquiry officer was nice but did get my goat up when she said because it's an injury accident we'll only record it for statistical purposes. I questioned this and said I think it's careless driving, and misquoted the falling below the standard of a reasonable driver bit. I also mentioned that GMP had said they would prosecute the collision I'd had last year in very similar circumstances.

I corrected her use of the word 'accident' and pointed out wasn't an accident it was a collision caused by the drivers carlessness. She also said traffic offences aren't crimes which annoyed me but I didn't challenge (partly as I could be wrong on that, but I think they are it's just public perception that they're not 'real' crimes, parking ticket type stuff aside.)

I was annoyed and argumentative mostly at the seemingly dismissive attitude. She went on to say there are lots of collisions and it'd clog up the system to prosecute all the minor ones. I did say from my point of view this isn't minor, I'm going to be permanently scarred due to someones careless driving. She also kept saying the drivers liable and his insurance company will sort it out. I had to keep saying the criminal and civil side are seperate. I realised that she was getting defensive and feeling I was just being arsey and telling her her job. I said I wasn't being argumentative, she said you are and I was to be fair.

She went out the back and came back and said the report will be passed to a traffic officer for consideration, I said to be conciliatory I realise that in your experience a minor collision like mine may not be prosecuted. She also said I think you've been watching too many cop shows when I said it's the CPS's job to decide whether to prosecute, I think she was getting mixed up with CSI. I looked up the CPS website whilst I was there and it clearly states 'emerging from a side road and colliding with another vehicle' is considered careless driving by them. When I pointed that out she said well that's not the police, and I could tell she was miffed. Again to be conciliatory I said I was looking it up to show what I was saying was based on reliable information not some crap cop show.

Right rant over. I be glad of suggestions of how to deal with this, firstly whether to complain about the 'enquiry officer' (not a police officer) talking drivel and just making me feel like it's not important.
Secondly about ensuring it is considered seriously for prosecution (which is all I ask, not that it's dismissed out of hand.).
And thirdly am I right about the issues raised, is it careless driving? are minor collisions prosecuted? should the civil side be regarded as 'resolving it'? are road traffic offences crimes? Am i right about the responsibilities and procedures for passing things onto the CPS for a prosecution decision, whether the police decide if it's worth it or do they have to pass on everything? @Drago @Vikeonabike @CopperCyclist

 

[Drago]

Depends of what offence is being considered. Only certain offences go to the CPS for consideration, and then only if certain evidential conditions are met. Minor collision unlikely to end in a prosecution I would think. I won't go further out on that limb because I don't know enough about the incident.

Most traffic offences are indeed not crimes, but that's a technical distinction and it's perhaps diplomatic not to point that out to someone who's just been had off their sickle and was injured as a result.

Don't let the CPS website get your hopes up either. They're famous in the trade for not following their own guidelines.

Here's for a speedy recovery, and that you get compo that reflects the stupidity of the offenders actions and the lifelong impact a visible facial injury can bring.

 

[Svendo]

Depends of what offence is being considered. Only certain offences go to the CPS for consideration, and then only if certain evidential conditions are met. Minor collision unlikely to end in a prosecution I would think. I won't go further out on that limb because I don't know enough about the incident.

Most traffic offences are indeed not crimes, but that's a technical distinction and it's perhaps diplomatic not to point that out to someone who's just been had off their sickle and was injured as a result.

Don't let the CPS website get your hopes up either. They're famous in the trade for not following their own guidelines.

Here's for a speedy recovery, and that you get compo that reflects the stupidity of the offenders actions and the lifelong impact a visible facial injury can bring.

Thanks Drago, that's the sort of insight I was after. I suspected that might be the case around the prosecution decision, CPS etc. I wouldn't have been so argumentative if I hadn't felt a decsion had already been made before they'd even got the report from me, and it effectively didn't really matter.

 

[dan_bo]

Should have chinned him Svendo.

 

[dan_bo]

You look like Mark E Smith on that pic.

Where's the can of Stella?

 

[ScotiaLass]

Get well soon!

 

[Saluki]

I hope you feel better soon. You've had more than your fair share of numpties in cars of late.

 

[fossyant]

Ouch

 

[CopperCyclist]

Right rant over. I be glad of suggestions of how to deal with this, firstly whether to complain about the 'enquiry officer' (not a police officer) talking drivel and just making me feel like it's not important.
Secondly about ensuring it is considered seriously for prosecution (which is all I ask, not that it's dismissed out of hand.).
And thirdly am I right about the issues raised, is it careless driving? are minor collisions prosecuted? should the civil side be regarded as 'resolving it'? are road traffic offences crimes? Am i right about the responsibilities and procedures for passing things onto the CPS for a prosecution decision, whether the police decide if it's worth it or do they have to pass on everything? @Drago @Vikeonabike @CopperCyclist

Pretty much what Drago said

To take your final questions in order:

1. It's entirely up to you if you want to complain. The most that would be likely to happen is 'a word' from an inspector - but that might be exactly what you want for her to see that she should have handled it differently? I probably would complain if that had happened to me.
2. The officer dealing *should* contact you you to let you know they are handling the case, and you can make your feelings known then. Personally with me, the feelings of the injured party tend to be my main driving factor in RTC - however the problem is there is no true national guidance for minor traffic offences, and as such little consistency. An RTC that I may write up for a prosecution could just as easily be written up by another officer for "no further action, leave to insurance companies", and although the decisions are the opposite end of the scale one wouldn't be considered necessarily wrong.
3. Yes, it is clear cut careless driving.
4. See 2. Some are prosecuted, some aren't - it's down primarily to the discretion of the officer who writes up the report, and at a secondary stage the CPS who could later decide not to run with the case.
5. The civil side can be considered as 'resolving it', but a lot of factors have to be taken into account before doing that. A not exhaustive list would include whether the injured party would be happy with that, does the other party have previous for driving offences, do we have the evidence to proceed.
6.I love the 'are they crimes questions'. Depends on your definition of that word. If convicted of careless driving then yes, you get a criminal record. It does get removed after so many years though, unlike other offences. They aren't recorded as a crime by the home office though (serious offences are - dangerous driving and above are recordable).
7. The ultimate decision is always CPS, as if we sent a job through with no evidence, they wouldn't run it, however initially for a careless driving we could make the decision to report that driver.

 

[Drago]

And Even if the CPS do run it, it's not uncommon for the prosecutor to drop it prior to court for some specious reason.

I wasn't present during this conversation, but it sounds like this person could have shown a little more empathy at the very least. How would they like it if the roles were reversed?

 

[Katherine]

Not good. Sorry to hear that you've been injured. Hope you heal well and get the compensation you deserve.

 

[Svendo]

Pretty much what Drago said

To take your final questions in order:

1. It's entirely up to you if you want to complain. The most that would be likely to happen is 'a word' from an inspector - but that might be exactly what you want for her to see that she should have handled it differently? I probably would complain if that had happened to me.
2. The officer dealing *should* contact you you to let you know they are handling the case, and you can make your feelings known then. Personally with me, the feelings of the injured party tend to be my main driving factor in RTC - however the problem is there is no true national guidance for minor traffic offences, and as such little consistency. An RTC that I may write up for a prosecution could just as easily be written up by another officer for "no further action, leave to insurance companies", and although the decisions are the opposite end of the scale one wouldn't be considered necessarily wrong.
3. Yes, it is clear cut careless driving.
4. See 2. Some are prosecuted, some aren't - it's down primarily to the discretion of the officer who writes up the report, and at a secondary stage the CPS who could later decide not to run with the case.
5. The civil side can be considered as 'resolving it', but a lot of factors have to be taken into account before doing that. A not exhaustive list would include whether the injured party would be happy with that, does the other party have previous for driving offences, do we have the evidence to proceed.
6.I love the 'are they crimes questions'. Depends on your definition of that word. If convicted of careless driving then yes, you get a criminal record. It does get removed after so many years though, unlike other offences. They aren't recorded as a crime by the home office though (serious offences are - dangerous driving and above are recordable).
7. The ultimate decision is always CPS, as if we sent a job through with no evidence, they wouldn't run it, however initially for a careless driving we could make the decision to report that driver.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. It clarifies what I was thinking, especially the 'grey' areas around prosecutions. Helps me convince myself that whilst I may have been a bit of an arsey, 'difficult' (but not rude) customer, I wasn't actually wrong.