Survey says roads feel too dangerous for cycling

[raleighnut]

Ah, but he's clever and able to keep himself safe and cycling safety's all about personal skill, isn't it(?) That's what government road safety campaigns keep telling us

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewYeuclTLoY

Why is that biased against cyclists, how about the 'education' to drivers not to overtake a cyclist then immediately turn left. Every 'left hook' I've had (about 4/5) has been caused by vehicles doing this including once whilst I was in a cycle lane.

 

[slowmotion]

In London, most cyclists seem used to riding in heavy traffic and motorists are used to driving amongst them. A 1.5 metre pass for most cyclists here is utter luxury. I don't feel remotely scared. If I take the bike to the sunken lanes of rural Cornwall or the bike lanes of Amsterdam, I'm terrified.

 

[classic33]

or it reverses... Also, note that the lorry overtakes him before attempting the left-hook. I'm sure this was discussed on here when it came out in 2016 but I didn't find the discussion just now. Chris Boardman rightly called that video "desperately misguided"

View: https://twitter.com/Chris_Boardman/status/780308121721925632


Keeping safe is mostly about personal skill, but mostly not ours, sadly. It's time for engineers to step up and motorists to be educated and rules enforced better.

A double white line painted on the road isn't going to guarantee your safety anymore than a single white line.

The further we go down the segregation route, on road, the greater the feeling that we have to use them. I'm on a road vehicle, why should I be forced off, to use the edge of the road or a footpath?

 

[srw]

Survey says people's perception of risk is out of step with reality. Shock horror probe.

The reality is that cycling is really safe - as safe as driving or walking, even before you take into account the long term benefits of having the body of a Greek god(dess).

The challenge is that addressing perception, especially false perception, is trickier than persuading Nigel Farage to admit he's a selfish, narcissistic, ignorant daffodil.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I was close passed by a rose once, made me see red.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

For me the A roads don't necessarily feel unsafe. But they feel unpleasant to ride on. If something feels unpleasant you won't do it for long.

 

[mjr]

A double white line painted on the road isn't going to guarantee your safety anymore than a single white line.

I agree. Paint alone is not engineering, enforcement or education.

The further we go down the segregation route, on road, the greater the feeling that we have to use them. I'm on a road vehicle, why should I be forced off, to use the edge of the road or a footpath?

I disagree that the feeling that we have to use such spaces can be significantly greater - I've been told to get off the road even when there is no other space for cycling, probably by people who also complain about cycling on footways - and I think most people already feel forced off the road. It's great that many don't, but I suspect no amount of exhortation and encouragement is going to get us over 50% cycling on the current roadscape.

You're quite right that gutters and footpaths aren't good places to cycle, so we need to reclaim part of carriageways as part of the "traffic-free[sic and ] facilities to help people build up their confidence" mentioned in the report.

We also need education to help motorists understand that there will always be people who can't/don't/won't use certain cycleways and remain on the carriageway, plus enforcement to punish them if they abuse such people.

 

[classic33]

I agree. Paint alone is not engineering, enforcement or education.


I disagree that the feeling that we have to use such spaces can be significantly greater - I've been told to get off the road even when there is no other space for cycling, probably by people who also complain about cycling on footways - and I think most people already feel forced off the road. It's great that many don't, but I suspect no amount of exhortation and encouragement is going to get us over 50% cycling on the current roadscape.

You're quite right that gutters and footpaths aren't good places to cycle, so we need to reclaim part of carriageways as part of the "traffic-free[sic and ] facilities to help people build up their confidence" mentioned in the report.

We also need education to help motorists understand that there will always be people who can't/don't/won't use certain cycleways and remain on the carriageway, plus enforcement to punish them if they abuse such people.

None of which does anything to lessen the view that cycling is dangerous. "It must be suicidal(riding on the road), you need seperate lanes."

I know bus drivers that refuse to cycle on the road. As to why, " There's too many of them(said as he pointed to a bus) on the road. He was quite happy just cycling onto the road though. Then back on the pavement the other side.

Local haulage company owner is a cyclist. And will often ride past his own depot and observe the drivers reaction to him cycling in front of them.

 

[mjr]

None of which does anything to lessen the view that cycling is dangerous. "It must be suicidal(riding on the road), you need seperate lanes."

But that view is already out there. If no more cycleways are ever built, that view will still be there. If we scrub out all existing ones overnight, loads of people will just stop cycling, no matter how much we tell them that view is wrong. The main thing linking that view to cycleways is that some people will start off on cycleways, then start riding on the road more and more (first as short-cuts to link cycleways, then to go further out of town, where cycleways become rarer) and slowly realise that view isn't accurate - I've seen it happen again and again and again.

I know bus drivers that refuse to cycle on the road. As to why, " There's too many of them(said as he pointed to a bus) on the road. He was quite happy just cycling onto the road though. Then back on the pavement the other side.

Local haulage company owner is a cyclist. And will often ride past his own depot and observe the drivers reaction to him cycling in front of them.

Well done that haulage company owner for doing some education and maybe enforcement. More like him and less like the bus driver, please!

 

[classic33]

But that view is already out there. If no more cycleways are ever built, that view will still be there. If we scrub out all existing ones overnight, loads of people will just stop cycling. The main thing linking that view to cycleways is that some people will start off on cycleways, then start riding on the road more and more (first as short-cuts to link cycleways, then to go further out of town, where cycleways become rarer) and slowly realise that view isn't accurate - I've seen it happen again and again and again.


Well done that haulage company owner for doing some education and maybe enforcement. More like him and less like the bus driver, please!

And if more people who may take up cycling but for the perception that because we, as cyclists, demand/require seperate facilities, it re-inforces in their mind, "it must be dangerous" if people who have been cycling are demanding segregation.

 

[mjr]

And if more people who may take up cycling but for the perception that because we, as cyclists, demand/require seperate facilities, it re-inforces in their mind, "it must be dangerous" if people who have been cycling are demanding segregation.

I don't believe that's true and it's contrary to evidence from other countries, but this survey is silent on that link. This survey does have other examples of BC members reinforcing the feeling of danger, though: "almost two thirds are concerned about their safety when riding on the road" and it's "an intimidating experience for even the most seasoned riders".

So what's the alternative solution? Should BC have swept this under the carpet and either not asked those questions or not reported those results?

 

[Starchivore]

Yet it is ok for you to ride?

There's definitely some silliness about the attitude I've taken, and it's not entirely rational- I don't generally feel unsafe as such, but at the same time I'm uncomfortable about the idea of my girlfriend trying round cycling round here. I think it's quite a harsh place for beginners.

 

[classic33]

There's definitely some silliness about the attitude I've taken, and it's not entirely rational- I don't generally feel unsafe as such, but at the same time I'm uncomfortable about the idea of my girlfriend trying round cycling round here. I think it's quite a harsh place for beginners.

Maybe things will ease/get better when the various roadworks are finished. Who's to know at this time. The inclines aren't something that can be helped though.

 

[GilesM]

Survey says people's perception of risk is out of step with reality. Shock horror probe.
The reality is that cycling is really safe - as safe as driving or walking, even before you take into account the long term benefits of having the body of a Greek god(dess).

Easier to blame the false risk than it is to admit that the real problem is cycling can be quite hard, hills go up, rain comes down, and the wind blows, cars are warm and dry inside, and have built in gravity eliminators.
Why is cycling more popular in Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Cambridge, than it is in Edinburgh?

 

[yello]

From my perspective of the time I spent in the UK last year (in south Shropshire): cycling wasn't fun so I stopped doing it. A combination of weight of traffic and the state of roads (the latter bothering me more in honesty) I found local lanes to be particularly concerning; visibility dramatically reduced by tall hedgerow. No, I didn't find it pleasant and there were too many times I felt vulnerable and at the whim of things beyond my control.

That is perspective, clearly, and a perspective due to context; after over 10 years riding in rural France I had become unused to UK roads. That said, I know which context I feel safer in.