Survey says roads feel too dangerous for cycling

[C R]

The graun has a piece on a survey by British Cycling, which reveals the level of danger felt by cyclists on the road, and how not addressing this puts people off cycling.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ing-we-need-enforcement-not-calls-for-respect

 

[rugby bloke]

All rings true to me. When it comes to close passes, you pretty much have 2 choices - get used to it or stop cycling. I honestly don't know what the answer is. In my situation I predominately cycle on quite roads on in rural Northants, even my commute to the station is along country roads. I don't for a minute expect these to be upgraded to provide segregated cycling paths. In general the majority of drivers are safe and considerate however on every ride there are a few who consider their unimpeded progress more important than my safety. Unfortunately I very much doubt they would be responsive to any type of driver education program.

 

[johnnyb47]

There talking about this now on BBC radio Wales. Its quite interesting

 

[mjr]

In my situation I predominately cycle on quite roads on in rural Northants, even my commute to the station is along country roads. I don't for a minute expect these to be upgraded to provide segregated cycling paths.

Why not, or at least the A roads? Some estimate that the whole network could be completed (as some already have them) for a third of the cost of HS2. Surely the bits that really need it, the short links between quiet lanes and stuff like that, could be done very cheaply.

I'm in favour of enforcement and education, but also engineering. It's better not to obsess about any one over the others. All the three Es can help.

I guess I'm also very lucky that I'm one of the 10% not getting close passed regularly, possibly due to having more cycleways than average here (even if some are substandard and they're not building many new ones) and most people knowing someone who cycles.

 

[Donger]

All very true. Guess I'm also lucky to have access to a lot of very quiet roads where I live. If you were to do a survey, I'm sure the map of Britain would show whole large areas that are a no-go for cyclists. Looking at the "Your Ride Today" thread, there also seem to be several pockets that produce the most contributors, suggesting that Gloucestershire, Leicestershire, Yorkshire and parts of Scotland (for example) may seem less threatening.

There are places in the Midlands where I would love to be able to ride, but I take one look at the road network and get put off by the dual carriageways, huge roundabouts and motorway link roads everywhere. Personally I would never have ridden to Stratford upon Avon without audaxing there using the Stratford Greenway. I ride a lot of audaxes, and I find that someone or other at Audax UK will have used local knowledge to find all the very best quiet routes around. The calendar of events on their website is well worth a look if you are looking for ideas.

The "Your Ride Today" thread has also been a source of inspiration to me over the years, helping me to discover the Mawddach Trail and the roads of South Wales and the Isle of Wight and inspiring me to try the Snake Pass when it was closed to traffic (etc, etc). If any of you know of any great quiet routes in your area, why not share your experiences on that thread?

I'm currently on holiday in Scotland, and we stopped off at Stirling on our way up. I was going to do a ride out to the Wallace Monument and then down through Stirling to Bannockburn and the hills beyond. This would have meant riding through Stirling twice. After driving through it once, I ditched the idea immediately. I think I now see why nobody has ever posted a ride through Stirling in "Your Ride Today"! Hoping for better luck near Moffatt on our way back home.

 

[DCBassman]

I never, if I can help it, ride on any road that could remotely be called busy, and if I can plan it so, on no roads at all. Just not worth the risk. Cyclists crossing Roborough down for fun or commute give me the horrors. The rights of the cyclists don't really matter at the moment, the danger is simply too great to go challenging for them.

 

[rugby bloke]

Why not, or at least the A roads? Some estimate that the whole network could be completed (as some already have them) for a third of the cost of HS2. Surely the bits that really need it, the short links between quiet lanes and stuff like that, could be done very cheaply.
.

To be honest I would settle for the roads being properly surfaced and pothole free - this would at least allow me ride a consistent line instead of having to work my way around the hazards on the road. I am sure that this is a great source of annoyance for car drivers.
I do take your point about building segregated lanes on A roads in order to link quite B roads together in order to create a network of cycle friendly routes. The thing is though, even on the B roads you will get a close pass, the drivers are either ignorant or just do not care. I have become hardened over the years and its not going to put me off but I see it as a significant barrier to people taking up cycling.

The great irony is that I feel safest riding in central London - at least drivers are expecting to be around cyclists.

 

[mjr]

The "Your Ride Today" thread has also been a source of inspiration to me over the years, helping me to discover the Mawddach Trail and the roads of South Wales and the Isle of Wight and inspiring me to try the Snake Pass when it was closed to traffic (etc, etc). If any of you know of any great quiet routes in your area, why not share your experiences on that thread?

Because I rarely find time to write up a ride on the same day.

 

[mjr]

I do take your point about building segregated lanes on A roads in order to link quite B roads together in order to create a network of cycle friendly routes. The thing is though, even on the B roads you will get a close pass, the drivers are either ignorant or just do not care.

Yes and there we need enforcement most. Most A roads are probably a lost cause for a few years.

To be honest, I'm not even thinking of linking B roads as much as like putting a cycleway along the mostly-wide-verged bit of the A508 between Yardley Gobion's so-called bypass and Grafton Regis to connect Yardley to Route 6 to Northampton without a mile and a half of rough grass towpath that condemns everyone to choose between walking, a MTB that's slow on the much longer road bit, braving the nasty fasty A road and taking the easier option of driving instead. That's a long example and many "A road barriers" are a half mile or less but it's near you.

Engineering, education and enforcement. None are happening enough yet.

 

[snorri]

In my situation I predominately cycle on quite roads on in rural Northants, even my commute to the station is along country roads. I don't for a minute expect these to be upgraded to provide segregated cycling paths.

I feel similarly in not expecting to see segregated paths everywhere, but I would like to see lower speed limits where segregated paths cannot be provided for economic or practical reasons. The existing situation in the UK where the 60mph NSL applies to narrow rural roads is not cycle friendly.

 

[KneesUp]

A lot of this rings true - but in a way I prefer the busier roads, at least for commuting, because the motorised traffic doesn't move much, and if it does the roads are wider so they can give you more room, if they want - and there are often drops in the kerb where you can escape if you need to.

Whenever I'm on one of those de-restricted country lanes with hedges and fences and stuff, no matter how quiet it is, I'm always expected some yoof in a Saxo to come flying past me or toward me, with no room for either of us to get out of the way.

 

[mjr]

OK, the report itself lives at https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/stateofcycling - it seems to be based on a survey of BC members and skewed to racers or race-like riders, with "96% of those surveyed do wear a helmet on the road" which suggests they've been listening to BC and its clubs and their generally wrongheaded ideas about safety (the main one of which can be discussed at https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-cyclechat-helmet-debate-thread.187059/ ) rather than advice based on the evidence from data analysis units. While Chris Boardman uses the 96% figure to comment on the futility of current advice, I think it should be setting off alarm bells about how well this survey represents "cyclists" which is how BC is presenting it.

So the spires (the campaign demands) may be noble but it looks like they may be built on sand. I didn't find much detail about the survey methodology yet. I'm going to be cautious about spreading this further.

 

[raleighnut]

I think one of the problems is modern cars, they've been made far too safe for the occupants. Not only that but even basic modern saloons exceed the performance of 'supercars' from the 70s.

 

[mjr]

The more I read, the less I like it. "72% also said that they often see people on bikes riding in a way which puts themselves in danger" - now, given that most people in this country (and definitely most BC members in my experience) have a very skewed idea of what's dangerous on a bike, I have my doubts about how much of what they saw was actually dangerous, rather than just annoying or stuff they wouldn't do. There are plenty of complaints even on this site about riders listening to a speaker, looking at a sat nav or walking a pet dog while cycling - on other sites, carrying luggage strapped to a rear rack and even riding on the road at all are claimed to be dangerous!

Then there's the very important difference that the cyclist "puts themselves in danger" while the motorist in the same paragraph of the press release (71% of those surveyed have seen ones acting hostile to cyclists) puts others in danger, but that's not highlighted. I wonder how many saw cyclists putting OTHERS in danger? I wonder if they even asked, or if it didn't fit the "mutual respect" BS point they were looking for?

I'm also really disappointed that even Chris Boardman falls into the trap of being unable to mention a serious motoring offence putting others at risk without mentioning a cyclist doing something that isn't always even an offence (red man or man+bike cycleway crossing lights are currently advisory, like give-ways): “We all need to take responsibility for our own actions on the road – whether you’re a cyclist skipping through a red light or a motorist using your phone at the wheel – we need an enforceable commitment to punish people in a way that is proportionate to the danger they pose.”

 

[icowden]

OK, the report itself lives at https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/stateofcycling - it seems to be based on a survey of BC members and skewed to racers or race-like riders, with "96% of those surveyed do wear a helmet on the road" .

I wear a helmet and I'm definitely not a racer. Not sure how you draw the conclusion that it is skewed to certain types of riders by whether or not they wear a helmet. And yes, we all know about the safety debate.

Similarly, I see lots of cyclists doing what I consider to be "putting themselves in danger". Usually by failing to wait for a green light at busy junctions. Cyclists tend not to put others in danger as they mostly have no passengers and tend not to try to hit pedestrians / cars / trees etc due to the nature of their vulnerability. I've also never heard of red lights being described as advisory, but am eager to learn more about this piece of info.

I do agree with you on your last point however. In any event, isn't the most important thing about this report that it can be used as evidence to drive better cycling infrastructure and improve cycle safety, rather than semantics?