Supplements or Steroids?

[reacher]

Very common place in gyms, easily available and very effective going on the size these mutton heads grow to, but these guys are into size not performance as we know it, I have heard talk of it being used in some cycling clubs how much truth their is in that I dont know, but I would have to say that going on how widespread the use is in gyms now it will be being used by some cyclists, differant drugs for endurance rather than size obviously, but not at all difficult to obtain

 

[Drago]

A lot of coppers, particularly the younger males, are gym monkeys, aided by the heavily subsided gym membership at most stations of any size. Two or three years ago a national project was launched by ACPO to try and catch police officers using steroids, the rationale being that they go to gyms, ergo they must have been offered steroids, and temptation must surely have overcome them.

Total numbers of officers caught - zero.

Meanwhile, one force is so strapped for cash they only visit burglaries where the house has an even door number.

Tax payers money and scarce resources being well utilised by the scrambled egg, as usual.

 

[reacher]

The one thing that's not going to be disputed is that this stuff works and works very well as for people saying they are using it then it's a differant matter, mostly they like to give the impression that it's all natural to others but will readily talk about it amongst themselves, in other words if your in the club it's an open secret if your not then they want you to look at them as though they were born that way and in their tiny minds have convinced them selves that's the case and their naturally gifted

 

[confusedcyclist]

Putting the illegal stuff aside, a good well managed diet will provide you everything your body needs to function and grow, that is unless you have a specific medical condition. Yes, legal supplements are inherently pointless, don't fall for the marketing hype. There's no evidence base to suggest supplements are required to be healthy, or get fitter, the only benefit they convey is convenience, perversely, lots of supplements do increase risk of overdosing certain nutrients, which means taking them can have a net harm. Seriously how hard is it to prepare some brown rice and open a can of legumes, or a boiled egg to snack on after a work out. Don't use supplements. Even protein shakes are pretty dumb when you think about it, powered milk and sugar. Just go straight to the source. Real food.

Get your stuff from your fruit, veg, legumes, brown rice and wholemeal cereals (wholewheat flour, brown pasta etc), you won't go much wrong if you're getting the right amount of protein and carbs. There's plenty of vegan body builders who don't use whey supplements, or eat steaks every night, go to youtube and see for yourselves the hypertrophy possible on plant based diet. It's quite incredible really. Supplements are basically snake oil, and the companies only get away with saying what they do, because they don't actually say anything at all. Don't believe me? Go read the labels. It's marketing bumf. Yet, we still get loads of people repeating pseudo-science on the internet about why you need a post-workout shake to get big, it's all BS.

 

[reacher]

The problem with saying their vegan and look at me on you tube is the same as the other meat heads they will all tell you it's natural, I'm not saying their aren't people who can get reasonably big training but theirs a limit and that plateau is only broken through with the use of drugs you can train as much as you want but that size only comes from one thing

 

[confusedcyclist]

Indeed, but if one wants to be healthy, you can't get more natural than veggies on your plate!

 

[Drago]

Except our teeth enamel is is too thin to withstand a wild vegetwirian diet, unless God planned for primitive man to wash their food in the sink. We also have inscissor teeth, designed to tear at meat, so the most natural plate will have some meat on it too. If people want to go all veggie I've no issues at all, it their business, but they can't pretend its so natural, when physiologically the evidence is to the contrary.

 

[confusedcyclist]

Except our teeth enamel is is too thin to withstand a wild vegetwirian diet, unless God planned for primitive man to wash their food in the sink. We also have inscissor teeth, designed to tear at meat, so the most natural plate will have some meat on it too. If people want to go all veggie I've no issues at all, it their business, but they can't pretend its so natural, when physiologically the evidence is to the contrary.

I agree we can eat meat, and we do. There's no right or wrong, and the choice to eat meat is a moral one for the individual, but your are perpetuating pseudo-science here too.

I can use the same pseudo-science argument about meat. When was the last time you successfully ate a fish, rabbit or cow using only your teeth and without the use of sharp blades or cooking to tenderise before consumption? I'd sure love to see you eat a hunk of raw cow with your "inscissors" like a bear or wolverine might. Cooking enables us to exploit both meat, and otherwise tough vegetables. More likely we evolved to eat mostly plants, but cooking meant we could exploit new food, i.e. those tough root plants that would wear our enamel, just like it enables us to consume meat more easily too. And raw meat isn't eaxctly appetizing to most humans these days. Our "fangs", are not really effective at ripping chunks of raw flesh. We use tools for that.

Humans are omnivores, and when we chew, it's mostly side to side like a ruminant, not up and down like the locked jaws of a shark or croc. Our closest living relatives are apes, and we have similar teeth, I put it to you that their typical diet is 99% plant, and the rest small insects. There's nothing unnatural about going without meat. We are far from designed to eat large amounts of meat, hence the recent massive increase in heart disease, and diabetes since meat became more abundant and affordable thanks to industrialisation.

 

[Drago]

Except its not pseudo science. Its an accepted anthropological truth. I don't care one way or the other, but the facts regards our teeth are what they are and are the biggest indicator of early hominid and human diet

I've also never claimed that the human body was 'designed' or evolved to eat 'large amounts of meat', so I don't see the relevance of that. Our teeth, chemistry, and physiology demonstrate an omniverous heritage.

I've never at any point disputed that industrialisation of food supply has vastly accelerated evolution, in much the same way vaping has appeared before smokers could evolve extra long index fingers. These are protestations against subjects I never commented upon.

 

[confusedcyclist]

You might prefer to argue that it's an accepted anthropological truth that humans have incisors that aid in cutting, there's no more science to back up the argument that incisors evolved to cut the flesh of an apple vs. the flesh of other animals. It's an assumption and presumptuous to theorise that the incisor evolved for flesh eating. The truth is neither of us can ever know. That's the pseudo-science.

So yes, incisors cut, it doesn't mean that you have to eat animal flesh, apes don't. They crunch ants with the same molar teeth we would, if we ate ants. If you think they do to the contrary, you probably read too much into planet of the apes. Yes I appreciate the irony in combating your pseudo-science with my own. I find it more intuitive that plant based diet is more natural than a 100% meat diet. There's too much propaganda and misinformation for vegan vs. meat diets. The middle ground probably makes sense, but there's lots of studies that say that even a little meat is bad for you. So typical advice that everything is good in moderation is probably not quite good enough, more likely we should eat ratios much closer to the apes, than typical modern westernised diets. I eat meat/diary, but minimize it as much as possible.

 

[Fonze]

Been in and out of gyms all my life, boxing .. Muay Thai .. and many people I've found like to gain an edge however they can.Steroids no doubt can benefit in many ways, increase in strength, recovery time is shorter once trained, but come at a price with your health.
As for cycling, I'm unsure how other than recovering quicker steroid use would help. I'm unsure what Lance A. used , but if in it for just fun I'd stick to a preworkout drink and a good protein or whey protein shake. Just my choice.

 

[reacher]

I think it's fair to say that the chemical side of performance enhancing drugs has evolved quite a lot from what was just simple steroid use, theirs a lot of other drugs available to boost performance, recovery, weight gain, weight loss. Just talking to bodybuilders in the gym makes you realise this or search on the net. Having seen people on these drugs I can tell you they work and work very well. Going on the widespread use in gyms i would hazard a guess that theirs a fair few cyclists out their who use the stuff in varying degrees as well.

 

[Prometheus]

U should try this
Bioactive vitamin D or calcitriol is a steroid hormone that has long been known for its important role in regulating body levels
of calcium and phosphorus, and in mineralization of bone.

Good for replacing fat with muscle, if you are over 40 on a hard training regime.
And just proved it: after a 20 mph collision; me and the bike did a full somersault then a
tarmac slide up into a grass verge. No broken collarbone, no broken femur, no gravel rash
not even a bruise!

I issued a chilling curse on the culprit and cycled on.

 

[reacher]

Don't know, I train hard and take nothing and have no fat and I'm old, proper diet and training does the job, much to the consternation of people who tell me they spend a small fortune on supplements and still look like sacks of shite

 

[FishFright]

You might prefer to argue that it's an accepted anthropological truth that humans have incisors that aid in cutting, there's no more science to back up the argument that incisors evolved to cut the flesh of an apple vs. the flesh of other animals. It's an assumption and presumptuous to theorise that the incisor evolved for flesh eating. The truth is neither of us can ever know. That's the pseudo-science.

So yes, incisors cut, it doesn't mean that you have to eat animal flesh, apes don't. They crunch ants with the same molar teeth we would, if we ate ants. If you think they do to the contrary, you probably read too much into planet of the apes. Yes I appreciate the irony in combating your pseudo-science with my own. I find it more intuitive that plant based diet is more natural than a 100% meat diet. There's too much propaganda and misinformation for vegan vs. meat diets. The middle ground probably makes sense, but there's lots of studies that say that even a little meat is bad for you. So typical advice that everything is good in moderation is probably not quite good enough, more likely we should eat ratios much closer to the apes, than typical modern westernised diets. I eat meat/diary, but minimize it as much as possible.

Apes do eat meat and most species actively hunt. Humans are omnivores, the combination of meat and fire gave us the necessary protein to develop the kind of brains. There's no problem with a good vegetarian diet but it's an ethical choice and not an evolutionary drive.