Strava upsets folk again 🙄

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Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
It makes me question the value I'm actually getting from Strava, since the only reason I'm paying for it at all is the convenience of having them host my data. If it's no longer convenient then why should I pay?

There will be no difference to their hosting of your data.

Anybody who doesn't link it to third party apps is not really going to see much difference.
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
It makes me question the value I'm actually getting from Strava, since the only reason I'm paying for it at all is the convenience of having them host my data. If it's no longer convenient then why should I pay?

If you really just do it for them to host, then why are you paying at all and not just use the "free" version.

I link mine to veloviewer, but only interested in my data and seeing what I've done. Segments and heatmaps don't really interest me.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I was frustrated by the fact that Veloviewer didn't link to RWGPS so I wrote my own version in Python using the RWGPS API.

Unfortunately like most of my coding projects I never really finished it. It shows the squares I've visited but I never got around to integrating it with any mapping.

Maybe this will make Veloviewer see the light.
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
I was frustrated by the fact that Veloviewer didn't link to RWGPS so I wrote my own version in Python using the RWGPS API.

Unfortunately like most of my coding projects I never really finished it. It shows the squares I've visited but I never got around to integrating it with any mapping.

Maybe this will make Veloviewer see the light.

approach them with the half written code and an invoice?
 

13 rider

Guru
Location
leicester
I was frustrated by the fact that Veloviewer didn't link to RWGPS so I wrote my own version in Python using the RWGPS API.

Unfortunately like most of my coding projects I never really finished it. It shows the squares I've visited but I never got around to integrating it with any mapping.

Maybe this will make Veloviewer see the light.
As I understand it your velo viewer data will continue as normal but velo viewer will not be able to show you anyone else data ,so leader boards and the ability to look at other people's map to discover his they got a square will be dead
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
As I understand it your velo viewer data will continue as normal but velo viewer will not be able to show you anyone else data ,so leader boards and the ability to look at other people's map to discover his they got a square will be dead

I don't have any Veloviewer data! I have something much better. An undocumented, half complete, half forgotten Python project! :smile:

I wrote it while dog sitting for a friend. The dog has since died so unless they get another one I'll never finish it.
 
As I understand it your velo viewer data will continue as normal but velo viewer will not be able to show you anyone else data ,so leader boards and the ability to look at other people's map to discover his they got a square will be dead

There are changes to the license agreement that prohibit certain types of data use and analysis that will cause problems for some receiving platforms. The video mentions some veloviewer features that may be at risk.
 
OP
OP
HLaB

HLaB

Marie Attoinette Fan
No, they are not stopping sharing data at all. They are just saying that any data that is shared can only be shown to you.

Where it is going to hit other apps worst though is not even mentioned in their email, but is where they are not allowing analytical use of the data. So no heatmaps of where other riders have been most or anything similar.

With Veloviewer, you will still have tiles that you have comleted, but you won't be able to conmare with anybody else unless the data has come from somewhere other than Strava.

I think most of the other apps that don't already have it will pretty soon deliver integration with Wahoo, Garmin, Hammerhead etc. And will then take data direct from those services rather than from Strava. Some already do, such as RideWithGps and Komoot.

I hope so but DC Rainmaker et al. seem less convinced.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
And (agreeing) he knows a shedload more than all of us here, and a broader perspective.
The world is ending shortly peeps. Get that last ride in.

Even he says:
the question becomes how does this
affect you and well the answer is simply
depends on how you straa if you only use
straa as a place to go ahead and look at

leaderboards and to share out your
activities and you don't use any
thirdparty apps at all it probably won't
change much at all
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I've just re-watched DCR. The three things are that an app may not do are:

Disclose data to another user or third party
Use data for training of "AI, ML or similar" models
Process or disclose Strava data (incl aggregated, de-identified data) for analytics, analyses, customer insights.

Strava's biggest asset is its huge volume of data from millions of individuals and it wants to be the only one allowed to do mass operations on that data. That is, sharing, leaderboards, social networking, training AI models, and generally data mining. They don't want a competitor piping data into their own db and then doing "Strava things" with it.

But they're happy for apps to provide individuals with user specific processing (eg like training analysis, square visiting). The problem arises once one of these apps has extracted a sufficient volume of user data to start to be able to do mass operations. Strava want these apps to "stay in their lane" serving their end users, and not take advantage of the volume of data they have accumulated to start doing "Strava things".

This is actually a reasonable approach. An app is there to do nice things for its users, and not as a cover to syphon data out of Strava in order for the app owners to use that data en masse for training models, data mining or social networking.

Let's say that Veloviewer allowed you to define things called "stretches" which were pre-defined bits of route. It would process all the Veloviewer users' rides against these "stretches" to see how fast riders were, and published leaderboards. This would be technically feasible and I think everyone would agree that Strava would have a right to be aggrieved that Veloviewer was trying to compete with segments.

But Strava just don't seem to have thought this through....

Is limited sharing with personal coaches really comparable to public sharing and social networking? No it isn't. They just didn't stop to think about this.
Are Veloviewer's leaderboards an abuse of the extracted data or harmless niche processing that in no way competes with Strava services? That's arguable but they are clearly against the new terms.
Is Trainerroad's use of data from Strava to train its "AI FTP model" an abuse of the data? (Note that's to train the model, not apply the model to an individual, that's OK) This is more arguable. Although I bet Trainerroad's AI FTP isn't really the result of a genuine AI model. It's probably a couple of formulas derived from an excel spreadsheet somewhere.

A bit of consultation with the major players (Trainerroad etc) might have resulted in a more nuanced and less heavy-handed approach.
 
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lazybloke

Today i follow the flying spaghetti monster
Location
Leafy Surrey
I was frustrated by the fact that Veloviewer didn't link to RWGPS so I wrote my own version in Python using the RWGPS API.

Unfortunately like most of my coding projects I never really finished it. It shows the squares I've visited but I never got around to integrating it with any mapping.

Maybe this will make Veloviewer see the light.

I wrote some debian scripts that interfaced with the Strava v2 api to extract my segment peformance data; I could then import the data into excel and do some analysis. Just for "fun", that's how my brain works.
Then they introduced the V3 api and I knew that at some point my scripts would need rewriting. I found that Veloviewer could extract all the data I wanted already, so I started using that.

I stopped using veloviewer when they moved to a subscription model, so was without it for years. I finally signed up earlier this year.
I also signed up to Strava about the same time, otherwise I couldn't see my own historical segment data, and I wanted to see how my fitness had changed over time.

If Strava enforce their new policies to the letter, then some of the veloviewer features I like could be blocked. I'd cancel both subscriptions.
STrava have a habit of annoying their customers; they're in danger of doing it again and losing more income.
 
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