Steel cranks

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I suspect the OP may have just discovered that chance is lumpy custard. Which is to say that random events like crank fractures or falling off your bike are not smoothly and evenly distributed through time -because they are random. This means that clusters may occur for no particular reason. Of course, sometimes there may be a common factor, but it’s at least even odds there won’t be.

As to stresses on cranks, like some cyclists I use pedal extenders to place the pedals more naturally under my feet. These add an extra moment of leverage to the strain on the pedal threads. Never been an issue. On the other hand, I once bought a good quality alloy crankset second hand which had professionally shortened cranks. After six months it failed. Not where the new pedal threads had been drilled, which is where I was looking for days to try and find the source of the clicking - it was the spider that failed!

From which I conclude that Chance is lumpy custard.
 
OP
OP
silva

silva

Über Member
Location
Belgium
I want to get rid of the offcenter resulting in tension variations that inflict alot more work upon every chain retensioning.
On my previous bikes I had to loosen 2 nuts, shift the wheel, and fasten these again. A 30 sec job.
With the bottom bracket eccenter on the new bike, I have to loose 2 allen head bolts, put the allen key in a hole, push it clock-counterclock don't remember to turn the module then retighten the bolts, with the retightening itself also tensioning the chain further, so I have to turn the module abit less, lower tension than desired, in order to end with the desired tension. This takes 5 min. And with the chain tension variation caused by an offcenter, I have to first turn the pedals to find the tightest position. And sometimes the crank then sits in the way of the hole in the eccenter, making it nearly impossible to get it as desired. It's just annoying as hell, compared to the simple two nuts before.
And I suspect the square taper axle as the cause of the offcenter. I eliminated everything else, it has to be spider and/or its mount on the axle, and since a square taper clearly deforms, it's the big suspect.

The bike is now at a dealer for conversion towards octalink, just like my previous bikes that never had this big tension variation.
I have had two cranksets for square taper, both times I got the variation.
In meantime I digged the idea of this topic, steel cranks. An octalink crankset became the goal. For aboves reason.
Just trying whatever I can, the series problems I had with this 4300 bucks bike became ridiculous long, it's clear the setup was wrong from the beginning, meaning that solving problems also should start from scratch, and hence this axle system conversion.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
I don't know why you've got this thing about chain tension variation. I've got several bikes fitted with square taper cranks and I don't experience any problems with them apart from occasionally needing to tighten a crank that may have got a bit loose. I also have a couple of old cottered steel set ups and I just ride the things. I don't give variations in tension at different positions a second thought. A wipe with a rag and a squirt of oil on the chain is the only attention I pay to the drivetrain .
 
OP
OP
silva

silva

Über Member
Location
Belgium
As I described: no derailer means retensioning chain according to wear progress. If not done, wear accelerates, chain risks falling off, and swapping between pushing forward and back has to bridge a big "dead" gap.
So, to avoid this crap, I do give a second thought.
Real problem, hunting real solution, solution possible, as proven on my 2 previous singlespeed>fixed gear bikes, > a decade in use.
 
I don't know why you've got this thing about chain tension variation. I've got several bikes fitted with square taper cranks and I don't experience any problems with them apart from occasionally needing to tighten a crank that may have got a bit loose. I also have a couple of old cottered steel set ups and I just ride the things. I don't give variations in tension at different positions a second thought. A wipe with a rag and a squirt of oil on the chain is the only attention I pay to the drivetrain .
Not many people have issues with square taper cranks, the deliberately fit them for tough conditions.
I just don’t get the problem, something is off, a machine shop is the only real solution,
get steel ones machined and lightened, and just to be sure, harden them too.
 
OP
OP
silva

silva

Über Member
Location
Belgium
I suspect the OP may have just discovered that chance is lumpy custard. Which is to say that random events like crank fractures or falling off your bike are not smoothly and evenly distributed through time -because they are random. This means that clusters may occur for no particular reason. Of course, sometimes there may be a common factor, but it’s at least even odds there won’t be.

As to stresses on cranks, like some cyclists I use pedal extenders to place the pedals more naturally under my feet. These add an extra moment of leverage to the strain on the pedal threads. Never been an issue. On the other hand, I once bought a good quality alloy crankset second hand which had professionally shortened cranks. After six months it failed. Not where the new pedal threads had been drilled, which is where I was looking for days to try and find the source of the clicking - it was the spider that failed!

From which I conclude that Chance is lumpy custard.
Chance is a term from the field statistics.
I have had 8 bikes
Fact is that my previous bikes didn't have this tension variation.

Elimination narrowed it down to either the cranks spider offcenter either its mount on the axle offcenter. A square taper connection typical deforms, and that's its very goal: to eliminate wiggle room by tensioning along a tapered path, with the connected parts adapting to eachother. This deformation can bring the spider mount offcenter.
during a period of 30 years.
15 years, 5 bikes, multiple-gears (4 external, 1 internal), but nearly never used them, I just kept on pedaling the biggest front and smallest rear cog, and when the latter became worn, I switched to the 2nd smallest.
11 years, 2 bikes, with singlespeed.
4 years, same 2 bikes, converted to fixed gear.
Over this period, I never had a broken crank.
The 15 years singlespeed and singlespeed-fixed, no derailer, chain tensioned along moving the rear wheel, I never had a chain tension variation - I could just loose 2 nuts, slide wheel backwards, fasten 2 nuts.
Then bike 8, costing 3 times the price of aboves bikes, the first 3/32" stainless steel chainring and the KMC Z1RB wore down in a single month, tensioning range at its end, and a huge tension variation going from 1 to 5 cm up and down.
Crankset replaced to make possible a 1/8" chainring, and chain replaced with a very wide one (3/16" plates).
This setup held out 18 months, made possible only by swapping / flipping cogs and chain, until the final discovery of the reason for the excessive wear (at a moment that heavy chain hung tilted 45°): a 5 mm wrong chainline.
In order to allow a 48T front cog, an even longer axle had to be used.
And this was just a selection of the many more problems that passed by (and were solved).
So, I conclude something else: those two crank failures in less than a month, were not bad luck/chance. I say that there must have been a specific cause. Just alike all before had.

Clearly, the dealer promised a bike he later on found out that he couldn't build to meet the demands.
This whole story, is consequence.
This chain tension variation is not the first problem, it's the last. The other problems got solved, and since previous bikes proved possible, this offcenter somewhere must have a solution too.

That is what this is about. The cranks broke - the alu thread stripped due to cracks that developed from the cranks pedal eye. Clearly some extraordinary stress takes place there. Stress not present on my previous bikes. Steel cranks would be more resistent, but they would be dealing with consequences, not causes. So it's better to hunt, and dump, the cause.
And therefore I decided to dump as much I could from the bottom bracket, to replace it with setups that proved (me) to be better. Octalink instead of square taper.
 
Chance is a term from the field statistics.
I have had 8 bikes
Fact is that my previous bikes didn't have this tension variation.

Elimination narrowed it down to either the cranks spider offcenter either its mount on the axle offcenter. A square taper connection typical deforms, and that's its very goal: to eliminate wiggle room by tensioning along a tapered path, with the connected parts adapting to eachother. This deformation can bring the spider mount offcenter.
during a period of 30 years.
15 years, 5 bikes, multiple-gears (4 external, 1 internal), but nearly never used them, I just kept on pedaling the biggest front and smallest rear cog, and when the latter became worn, I switched to the 2nd smallest.
11 years, 2 bikes, with singlespeed.
4 years, same 2 bikes, converted to fixed gear.
Over this period, I never had a broken crank.
The 15 years singlespeed and singlespeed-fixed, no derailer, chain tensioned along moving the rear wheel, I never had a chain tension variation - I could just loose 2 nuts, slide wheel backwards, fasten 2 nuts.
Then bike 8, costing 3 times the price of aboves bikes, the first 3/32" stainless steel chainring and the KMC Z1RB wore down in a single month, tensioning range at its end, and a huge tension variation going from 1 to 5 cm up and down.
Crankset replaced to make possible a 1/8" chainring, and chain replaced with a very wide one (3/16" plates).
This setup held out 18 months, made possible only by swapping / flipping cogs and chain, until the final discovery of the reason for the excessive wear (at a moment that heavy chain hung tilted 45°): a 5 mm wrong chainline.
In order to allow a 48T front cog, an even longer axle had to be used.
And this was just a selection of the many more problems that passed by (and were solved).
So, I conclude something else: those two crank failures in less than a month, were not bad luck/chance. I say that there must have been a specific cause. Just alike all before had.

Clearly, the dealer promised a bike he later on found out that he couldn't build to meet the demands.
This whole story, is consequence.
This chain tension variation is not the first problem, it's the last. The other problems got solved, and since previous bikes proved possible, this offcenter somewhere must have a solution too.

That is what this is about. The cranks broke - the alu thread stripped due to cracks that developed from the cranks pedal eye. Clearly some extraordinary stress takes place there. Stress not present on my previous bikes. Steel cranks would be more resistent, but they would be dealing with consequences, not causes. So it's better to hunt, and dump, the cause.
And therefore I decided to dump as much I could from the bottom bracket, to replace it with setups that proved (me) to be better. Octalink instead of square taper.
Were the cranks that failed the same model.
If I understand you, the cranks broke where the pedal screws on,
not the end where the crankl screws to the bottom bracket.
 
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