Sprinting and going fast

[Citius]

Definitely magic. Can't think of any other explanation.

 

[marzjennings]

No. This is why it is pointless engaging with you, because you just will not understand. Stop dwelling on minute detail and start looking at the bigger picture, because only the bigger picture is actually relevant. Strength (stronger legs) may give you a higher peak power, but average power is what wins races, not peak power. The Australian track team found that out in Beijing 08, because they spent all their time training for peak and came home with nothing. Cavendish is an excellent example of a (road sprinter) with 'rubbish' peak power (his words). At the top of his game, his average was still far higher than those with supposedly 'stronger' legs.

And we're not talking about wining races, either track or road, you've lost the point of this thread. Just, how to go faster in a sprint. How to reach a target speed, regardless of the 'bigger picture'. Explosive speeds and sprints need strong legs. Very very simple.

 

[Citius]

Explosive speeds and sprints need strong legs. Very very simple

No - they - don't. FFS. Define 'explosive'. Climbers can be explosive in their attacks, but....you know the rest.....

Lots of people have already tried to explain to you why this isn't the case. Please provide some actual detail as to why you don't agree with those explanations.

 

[marzjennings]

No - they - don't. FFS. Define 'explosive'. Climbers can be explosive in their attacks, but....you know the rest.....

Lots of people have already tried to explain to you why this isn't the case. Please provide some actual detail as to why you don't agree with those explanations.

Lots? So far only 2 seem to be supporting rather ridiculous counter opinions about the limits of force that a rider can be apply to the pedals,

Not discussing winning races or really whether squats can help build usable strength. Just the simple concept that if I stand on my pedals and pull up with my arms, the resultant force is greater than my mass (I'm not even including the possibility that I could be also extending my leg at the same time). And therefore with stronger arms, core and legs I would be able to apply more force to the pedals and my actual mass is not a limiting factor. This can they help me 'explode' or accelerate rapidly from speed x to speed y, where x could be zero. Or as in my ride yesterday, provide a little more power required to clear a short climb.

 

[Simpleton]

@marzjennings to save you looking, I'll even repost it here for you.

From here
In fact, I'll give it a quick go as an example.

Using information from Stage 18 of the 2013 tdf available here http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...sis-stages-18-19-at-the-tour-de-france_296653 with over 4km of climbing on the stage.

Using Normalised power as the power

Power = 314W
Cadence = 82rpm
Crank Length = 172.5mm (No crank length data so we will just use this)

So Power = work/time

314W = work/time

To find the time we know the crank has radius 172.5 so has diameter 345mm Which has circumference pi*d which comes out to 1083.84mm, since this crank length is already an assumption, I'm quite happy to call this 1.1m for simplicity of calculation.

With a cadence of 82rpm it takes 0.73seconds per revolution

Rearrange power = work/time to work = Power*time

work = 314*0.73
= 229.22 Nm of torque

Which is 23.4 kg m Since 1m is quite close to our full revolution, half of that is what is put through 1 pedal.

So the best cyclists in the world, on a stage that involved much climbing were only putting 11.7 Kg through each pedal stroke.

The amount is tiny, in fact, the weight they put on the pedal is less than some bicycles weigh.

As you can clearly see, strength won't be a limiting factor, and squatting really won't help to get up those hills


From here
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/toolbox/power-output-and-cadence-learning-from-the-pros/#.VazZn9xViko

That source suggests during large climbs, cadence drops to 71rpm and power stays at 311. So I'd expect the "strength" on this to be higher due to same power and lower cadence.

71rpm is 0.84s per revolution

work = 311*0.84 = 261.24 Nm or 13.31 Kg per leg

So it the pros are only using a little extra power to get up the hills, the difference isn't a massive amount.


Find the power and cadence from a track sprinter, and I'll quite happily do the math.

watts is 2300, there is no cadence.

 

[Citius]

Lots? So far only 2 seem to be supporting rather ridiculous counter opinions about the limits of force that a rider can be apply to the pedals,

Which - incidentally - you have still to clarify in a way that actually means something, despite me asking you at least twice to do so. You'll probably ignore this request as well. The irony is you are so convinced that pulling on the bars gives you all this extra power, yet you can't articulate how much power it provides, and you can't provide a single shred of evidence to support it. Meanwhile, people that actually know what they are talking about are running rings around you.

 

[Moderators]

• Thread derailed.
• Argument going round in circles.
• Comments getting personal.

Time for this one to be locked I think.

 

[marzjennings]

Which - incidentally - you have still to clarify in a way that actually means something, despite me asking you at least twice to do so. You'll probably ignore this request as well. The irony is you are so convinced that pulling on the bars gives you all this extra power, yet you can't articulate how much power it provides, and you can't provide a single shred of evidence to support it. Meanwhile, people that actually know what they are talking about are running rings around you.

I so no rings around me. Just a couple of folks not willing to accept they are wrong. Who are these people you claim know what they are talking about, as I assume you are not including yourself in that set?