Speeding course and room of denial.

[Electric_Andy]

My wide did one a year ago and they said it doesn't affect insurance as there's no national database where it's logged (so you don't have to declare).
I'm not sure I agree with this approach. Although I bet the insurers load your premium when you declare a speeding fine (i.e. they assume you've already had an awareness course and weren't eligible for another).

It was my understanding that the speeding infringement is mandatory to declare, whether you got points and/or a fine or went on a speed awareness course. The course/points/fine is just the punishment. So whatever you received or opted to receive would still not affect the fact that you were caught speeding which you have to declare on your insurance. I suppose it differs between what companies you use though

 

[Electric_Andy]

Massive denial that they had done anything wrong

This is the problem. There are people in life who think they are hard done-by and it's everyone elses fault, or the rules are stupid. It's only the sensible ones who would take it on the chin and learn from it, and those people are the ones least likely to speed anyway

 

[Alex321]

It was my understanding that the speeding infringement is mandatory to declare, whether you got points and/or a fine or went on a speed awareness course. The course/points/fine is just the punishment. So whatever you received or opted to receive would still not affect the fact that you were caught speeding which you have to declare on your insurance. I suppose it differs between what companies you use though

Most of them only require you to declare convictions or fixed penalties.

Accepting the course means you don't get either of those, so it doesn't need to be declared, any more than you need to declare the ones where you didn't get caught.

I believe there are some insurance companies that specifically ask the question as to whether you have been on a course, and then you would have to say yes, or you would be committing insurance fraud.

 

[Ajax Bay]

I attended such a course at the local place maybe 8 years ago (caught by a camera at 37: the second most 'successful' camera in Devon, which I'd never driven past before, at 7:30 going into Torquay) (I think).
I too thought it well run with a fair syllabus and useful visual aids. My fellow 'students' were pretty 'let's get through it and maybe listen'.
In preparation, or anyway, I had recently learned about saccadic masking and mentioned it (from the perspective of another road user and SMIDSY).
More: SOBS: https://scienceofbeingseen.org/the-science-of-being-seen-introduction/

"when we turn our heads quickly, our vision is shut down in a series of ‘saccades’… this causes ‘saccadic masking’… drivers at junctions turn their heads quickly left and right, and generate saccades… if the [cyclist] falls behind a saccade, the driver can appear to look right at [them] and yet will not see it…"

". . solving the SMIDSY collision may sound simply but it’s not… whilst there is limited evidence that conspicuity aids reduce the collision rate, their use is far from a guarantee the [cyclist] will be seen… even when seen, drivers may still misjudge speed and distance… pink hi-vis, the night-time ‘ghost jacket’ and yellow lights would seem to be more effective than conventional hi-vis and DRLs…. but whatever strategy we do adopt, there’s no guarantee we will be seen…"

 

[Beebo]

I did my course online.
Everyone was quite engaged and most people were looking at ways to improve.
There will always a be a few knobbers, I guess when it is an on line course it’s harder for them to all get together, where as in a physical classroom the wingeing can start.

I did get told off for not looking directly at the camera. I guess they are monitoring you to ensure you are paying attention.

 

[Time Waster]

I got a speeding ticket in Scotland on the A/M74 south of Glasgow in the wilderness section. I was doing just over 70mph on a downhill straight and speed got away from me. However about 10 minutes earlier I was doing over 80mph so I kind of took it as karma that I got done at IIRC 2mph over after going a lot quicker earlier.

Anyway, I got the letter and emailed back to ask if they did a speed awareness course as I thought it would benefit me. They kindly replied to say that in Scotland they were evaluating those courses with a potential to apply them at some point but at this time I had to accept my points. Or words to that effect. So I sent the paperwork off and paid the fine, got the points and learnt from that.

I was not looking forward to my renewal offer after I put in my points prosecution. When I looked for a deal on a comparison site I put it all in honestly, like I did with past accidents of which most were not actually my fault as the car was stationary or parked up when hit, then waited for the quotes to come back. They were no different than the previous years quotes. I ended up with the same insurer with the same cover for a couple of quid difference (actually cheaper). It does make me wonder if one set of 3 points for speeding does not actually make much difference if you are 30 plus in age with no other points on your licence.

My parents have gone on those courses before. My Dad also took part in a research programme where they put a real fancy GPS unit with a communication device attached. It logged driving and at previously agreed times it downloaded the data all anonymously. Then after it the unit was kept by the person taking part. The idea was to see what effect monitoring of driving had on speed. Initially my dad slowed down then forgot about it. Eventually he did slow down. I think they monitoired driving for so many months then sent the data to the researchers. Then they left it without recording driving for a few months then they recorded again for a few months and sent the data to the researchers. Something about whether monitoring produced positive effects that lasted when no longer recording. It kind of did as my Dad for several years later was taking it slower. A good thing. However it never did anything on his tailgating the car in front. Way too close for my comfort!! The final outcome was that he got a state of the art GPS unit with lifetime updates via that communication device. All properly installed into the electrics of the car. He sold it with it installed. AIUI the unit was a trade brand from France or somewhere like that as used in commercial vehicles as a tracker as well as GPS navigation. Seemed more accurate than his TOMTOM he used before it.

I suspect most people on those courses are there to avoid points to make sure their insurance premiums do not go up. One time at least. Denial is likely but there is the risk they might actually learn something useful. My parents said it was a very good course, indeed they thought it would be good for all motorists to be made to do even if they don';t get caught speeding.

 

[Alex321]

I was not looking forward to my renewal offer after I put in my points prosecution. When I looked for a deal on a comparison site I put it all in honestly, like I did with past accidents of which most were not actually my fault as the car was stationary or parked up when hit, then waited for the quotes to come back. They were no different than the previous years quotes. I ended up with the same insurer with the same cover for a couple of quid difference (actually cheaper). It does make me wonder if one set of 3 points for speeding does not actually make much difference if you are 30 plus in age with no other points on your licence.

There was a time (before speed awareness courses) when some insurers said on the proposal forms that you did not need to tell them about one speeding conviction, you only needed to tell them if you got a 2nd one within three years.

So presumably their statistics tell them there isn't much difference in risk for somebody with one speeding offence.

 

[Dadam]

I did get told off for not looking directly at the camera. I guess they are monitoring you to ensure you are paying attention.

That can be difficult if they are sharing content and you have a laptop with a small screen, and so put the content onto the big screen. You end up having to look at the other screen not the webcam. I work in tech and spend a lot of time WFH. However most folks don't tell you off for not looking at the camera. If you wanted to read Cyclechat instead of watch the course, you could put that on the laptop screen and the course content on your other screen. They'd never know.

 

[Time Waster]

There was a time (before speed awareness courses) when some insurers said on the proposal forms that you did not need to tell them about one speeding conviction, you only needed to tell them if you got a 2nd one within three years.

So presumably their statistics tell them there isn't much difference in risk for somebody with one speeding offence.

Speed awareness courses were common and had been in effect in England for years, I was on holiday in Scotland and they were a few years after England with setting these courses up. I had to tell them about the single conviction for speeding on the forms when I was in renewal time. So I am not sure about this. I would have thought that in some areas getting caught is so unlikely that the one actual case of being caught would be more significant indicator or higher risk.

I remember a police officer in Cumbria telling me they had 4 mobile camera units in the whole of Cumbria constabulary. Which was apparently the exact same number operating in Preston alone at the time!!! If you had a lead right foot where would youi prefer to live to escape issues with your licence??? That was a good few years ago now though.

 

[tom73]

When Mrs 73 went on her's they found out a women was on the course. As she'd been caught speeding on the way to her last speed awareness course.

 

[Beebo]

When Mrs 73 went on her's they found out a women was on the course. As she'd been caught speeding on the way to her last speed awareness course.

If that was the case she wouldn’t be offered a course.
You can only do one every 3 years.

 

[Drago]

I attended such a course at the local place maybe 8 years ago (caught by a camera at 37: the second most 'successful' camera in Devon, which I'd never driven past before, at 7:30 going into Torquay) (I think).
I too thought it well run with a fair syllabus and useful visual aids. My fellow 'students' were pretty 'let's get through it and maybe listen'.
In preparation, or anyway, I had recently learned about saccadic masking and mentioned it (from the perspective of another road user and SMIDSY).
More: SOBS: https://scienceofbeingseen.org/the-science-of-being-seen-introduction/

"when we turn our heads quickly, our vision is shut down in a series of ‘saccades’… this causes ‘saccadic masking’… drivers at junctions turn their heads quickly left and right, and generate saccades… if the [cyclist] falls behind a saccade, the driver can appear to look right at [them] and yet will not see it…"

". . solving the SMIDSY collision may sound simply but it’s not… whilst there is limited evidence that conspicuity aids reduce the collision rate, their use is far from a guarantee the [cyclist] will be seen… even when seen, drivers may still misjudge speed and distance… pink hi-vis, the night-time ‘ghost jacket’ and yellow lights would seem to be more effective than conventional hi-vis and DRLs…. but whatever strategy we do adopt, there’s no guarantee we will be seen…"

Saccadic vision is why we constantly scan and not just when manoeuvring like most folk do.

 

[Sharky]

Yeah, I was caught. Basically not observant enough. Travelling along a 40 mph section and without road conditions changing that much, entered a 30 zone, at the same time as the road was going down hill. I usually take my foot off the gas and gradually slow down, but the cameras were too quick

Anyway, this is not the point of my post. The other day came across a series of three count down signs, warning of approaching speed limit and cameras. I don't think that I've seen them before. They were certainly new on this section of road.
(BTW, the road used to be called "Death Hill").

If these signs had been in the location where I was caught, I would probably have slowed down in time

Are these countdown signs rare or common?

 

[sheddy]

In the pandemic there was a bloke on their online SAC who thought it would be OK to log on
while he was driving. When the examiner saw the moving background, he was immediately disconnected and presumably given a fine and 3 points.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

In the pandemic there was a bloke on their online SAC who thought it would be OK to log on
while he was driving. When the examiner saw the moving background, he was immediately disconnected and presumably given a fine and 3 points.

Or a ban for dangerous driving