Speccing a Dream Bike - Long Term Project

[MacB]

or even butterfly bars[/B]' date='quote']
Can you be tempted by drop bars? More or less has the same positions as bull horn bars with the added extra of free speed drops

Ah, you forget I'm getting older and my desire to crouch down will not be increasing

Back on track - 953 steel seems to be leading the charge, waiting on feedback from Argos and Rourkes.

Also, I like plain things and don't really want tubes on my bike emblazoned with manufacturers names, don't mind a head tube badge, but that's it. Do framebuilders get funny about this, insist on their decals or is it, as it should be, up to the customer?

 

[mickle]

Check out Rivendell bikes for lots of useful info on custom frames.

http://www.rivbike.com/

 

[PpPete]

Ah, you forget I'm getting older and my desire to crouch down will not be increasing

Back on track - 953 steel seems to be leading the charge, waiting on feedback from Argos and Rourkes.

Also, I like plain things and don't really want tubes on my bike emblazoned with manufacturers names, don't mind a head tube badge, but that's it. Do framebuilders get funny about this, insist on their decals or is it, as it should be, up to the customer?

I'm with you on the 953 over Titanium for a "dream machine" ....(if only I could afford either !)
Titanium is much "springier" , Steel is "stiffer" - just compare their respective Young's modulus values (or a stress/strain curve if you prefer)
I know specialist Titanium frame builders will take this into account - but the main triangle is still basically 2-dimensional so Titanium will surely "flex" side to side more.

However....please give drop bars a try. I think age is irrelevant, I've 8 years on you and I've known 70 & even 80 year olds use drops happily . I flirted with the idea of butterfly bars, because I was never quite comfortable with my drops. Then I realised they were too narrow, now I've got the right width and I love them - spend hours on the drops some days.

 

[MacB]

PP, point taken re drops, I'm figuring the frame stats will come out the same regardless. Reach to flats and hoods will equate to flats and sides on bullhorns and flats and sides on butterflies. Therefore final choice on bars will not impact the frame design. I'm also quite happy to have an uncut steerer tube and space out above and below the stem clamp, allowing future tweaking. I see the bigger variance as being drop from saddle to bars, obviously this impacts the reach as well, ie lower = longer and vice versa. Due to my intended use, and personal preference, I see myself as leaning more towards the Rivendell view. Basically the biggest frame you can stand over and control. I know that this would sacrifice some handling aspects etc, but I'm not planning a bike for racing or nipping around traffic on. Another way to view it is with a car(spit and curse) analogy, I don't want a sports car I want a cruiser that can turn it on if need be, but will do the miles in comfort.

Mickle, I have read quite a bit on Rivendell before but it's hard to know how to take them. They appear to make total sense but then some regard them as cultist and, particularly, berate their ideas re pedals etc. I like their traditional views on frames and sizing though. Some bikes do look weird with a mile of seatpost shwoing.

Though I must say I used your(Mickle) advice and sizing advice re Rivbikes when making final decision on the Surly Crosscheck frame. I'd been trying to choose between 58cm and 60cm, went with 60cm, very glad I did now.

Poddles off to look at more sites and frames.........must be careful......have been out tonight and beer, internet and credit card can be a dangerous combination.

By the way Mickle, re the Argos/Easton spec on your ealier post, was that my dream bike or yours you were suggesting?

 

[mickle]

My dream bike. Well one of them.

Rivendell have their own ideas about a lot of things. I love the fact that they don't follow fashion, flat pedals and mudguards do have a place on expensive bikes. Why does a dream bike have to be the cycling equivalent of a F1 car? Few of us are TdF level riders, the gearing is too high and the bars are too low for most folk.

I saw a £5000 steel city bike at the EHMBE last weekend, it didn't catch my eye until I'd walked past it three times. Not flash, not particularly lightweight but durable, practical and honest.

 

[MacB]

My dream bike. Well one of them.

Rivendell have their own ideas about a lot of things. I love the fact that they don't follow fashion, flat pedals and mudguards do have a place on expensive bikes. Why does a dream bike have to be the cycling equivalent of a F1 car? Few of us are TdF level riders, the gearing is too high and the bars are too low for most folk.

I saw a £5000 steel city bike at the EHMBE last weekend, it didn't catch my eye until I'd walked past it three times. Not flash, not particularly lightweight but durable, practical and honest.

yep, I was with your suggestion on the Argos frame build just lost me a bit with the Easton stuff and the Camp Super Record. Not sure all of that is in keeping with my needs. At some point the performance gains surpass all but the very best riders, and I'm at the other end of the rider scale to them. Just seems a bit more racy/TT orientated where I'm looking for comfort, reliability and longevity(but still blingy).

Any titanium freaks out there? speak now coz otherwise I'll be commiting to steel(I'm a hasty type).

You steel folks - is 953 the way to go? are lugs best? is there anything wrong with tig welded? Should I just settle on a frame builder and then be led by them?

So many questions, so many views on the web and so little chance of trying out these top end frames in advance. I had thought it would be nice to have by the end of the Summer. Jeez, some of the frame builders have some lead times, next Spring might be pushing it!!!

 

[craigwend]

Search for 'Paul Smiths' comparison of various frame materials on here, some sound advice.

I have one Ti & two steel bikes, when it came to my dream bike it was Ti (on a budget), no feelings ever of over the honeymoon period, just when can I go on it next?

Ultimately though your choice, looks like your aiming for steel; ask yourself what you want it for?
Every-day
Special days
Long days etc
should help you choose
for example I don't communte on my 'dream bike', I could probably go on forever on my (steel)galaxy, racking miles etc, but when I get on my euros, I'm that little boy who always wanted a 'nice' bike (sadly without the stamina)

Talking of steel...

Have you also thought about
http://gallery.mac.com/robinmather

Ages ago one of his bikes was reviewed in C+ a true piece of beauty


Choose wisely Obiwanmacbludgeon!

 

[MacB]

interesting Craigwend, unfortunately Robin Mather has stopped taking orders for the time being. Could you describe how you find the difference between steel and ti? I have everyday bikes, commuting etc, I'm looking at a bike for fun only. I've read several of the offerings, here and elsewhere, from Paul Smith, very informative. What I expect from the bike?:-

could take a rack, I like rackpacks, and guards, though guards not so vital, if need be, will probably be run on 25 or 28mm tyres
will be used for day rides up to 250 miles max(more likely not to go beyond 150 miles), possibly v.light credit car short tour
comfort wins over speed but still want to be able to put the hammer down when need be
carbon puts me off due to lack of robustness to accidental damage
If the frame costs £1k or £3k isn't going to stop me or influence me in my decision, just take fancier footwork around the household budget
What i fancy will be open to influence by the builder I select, ie if he feels a certain material is best suited to me I'll be led by that. I expect the fit, and service, to be spot on and am prepared to pay for that.

I've been to about 30 frame builders websites, am waiting on feedback from 5 of them. Several have stopped taking orders or appear to be no longer trading. I've scoured Sheldons site, Rivendell, numerous US buidler sites and forums.

The problem remains that, for every positive, there are negatives and I don't know enough to sort the wheat from the chaff. This relates to frame materials, construction methods and ride quality. Hey ho, I'm sure plenty of others have been down this route.

Sorry that sounds quie negative, I do appreciate the help so far and it is making things easier for me.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I really like the look of Richard Sachs bikes - www.richardsachs.com/rsachs2.html - beautiful ent they?

You have to factor in a plane fare to the USA mind

sigh!.......

 

[MacB]

Well, still looking, not finding much in the way of reviews for 953 steel, though have seen a recommendation for Eddisons in Clwne as a builder that uses it, Rourke being the only other one verified so far.

Titanium info continues to be elusive, have been looking at Van Nichols and Enigma Etape tonight. I'm still strangely drawn to Titanium, or am I just drawn to the latest fashionable material?

 

[craigwend]

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=31919&highlight=frame+material

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30698&page=2

To answer your question from earlier they don't compaire, not because I know the technical differences... just different bikes for different occasions, rockhopper off road, galaxy commute/train/off road (and my longest distance) euros semi-compact, racing wheels & groupset feels great but i'm sure the same for highend steel or carbon (my other option at the time was a roubaix, but fancied Ti... beacuse I did! Sadly looks grat too)

But I wanted it for fast day rides, the eventual sportive (now I know I can do the distance) and just all out FUN, in short it was personal as your choice will be, but if you do go Ti it does look nice

 

[MacB]

thanks Craig, have read through them and also some lengthy posts on YACF. Titanium has now moved into the lead but there's now a serious risk of N+2 so replace my commuter with a 953 steel and have a titanium fun bike.

Steel leaders - Rourke and Argos
Titanium leaders - VN Yukon, Enigma Etape, Burls custom or Zerofour custom. Did favour the Etape but the integrated headset idea puts me off a bit.

ta for the help....Al

 

[MacB]

Just been browsing the Serotta website, rather like the looks of the Legend, Fierte and Classique, have sent an info request.

 

[NickM]

You like plain things; you want a bike for life; it sounds to me as though you want a titanium frame. It looks lovely unadorned with paint, and it doesn't rust. MsM has two, a Yukon with mudguards and an Airborne Valkyrie without, and loves them both.

Repairability is a red herring. If you pranged a very expensive steel frame and had it repaired, it wouldn't be the same, and you would know it and be unhappy with it.

Frame "feel" is also, IMO, a red herring. Assuming competent frame design, the amount of air in your tyres, and their cross-section, is vastly more important than the frame material. So you need to ensure that you can fit tyres of the section you are likely to want. If the road surfaces you will ride are rough, you might want to go up to 28C, or even fatter.

Of course, being from the Dark Side, I couldn't possibly recommend that you spend lots of money on a "dream bike" without first trying a recumbent. This bike is supposed to be (a) fun and ( comfortable, yes? Well, recumbents are both More Fun and More Comfortable!

 

[NickM]

Something like this, maybe:

http://www.m5-ligfietsen.com/site/EN/Models/Shock_Proof_559_Titanium/

Really requires a trip to Holland, which is part of the fun