Spa Cycles

[raleighnut]

they are not still building with plain gauge spokes on the drive side are they? The latest Dinosaur technology from Spa Cycles

What's wrong with that combination, I got John to build me a rear wheel in that style after a tip on 'Sheldon'. As I understood it though it was more to do with keeping the tension of a loaded wheel even to prevent brake 'rub' ,and believe me my Ridgeback used to get very heavily laden on jaunts up to the Peak District (at the time I used to establish a 'base camp' up there and then travel off in daily 'loops')
It would have been easier to transport everything up there by car but I don't use one of those and I do like a bit of 'luxury' in the tent, little things like a glass for drinking my Single Malt from cos it doesn't taste 'right' drinking it from a plastic vessel. and only hooligans neck it straight from the bottle.

I'd reckon the total weight of me, the bike and the luggage would have been around the 150Kg mark so assuming a 40/60 split for the weight then the back wheel would have been carrying 90Kg for the 70 miles or so there some of which was on trails (the 'Cloud' trail up to Derby and then the Tissington/High Peak from Ashbourne)
Never broke a spoke or 'buckled' a wheel doing that 2 or 3 times a year for 7/8 years and the wheels are still going strong.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Straps, who'd have thought! That man is a genius, and from now on I'm keeping zip ties in my bag.

I find two lengths of 23C inner tube work better that the toe straps I have, on Marathon Plus tyres.... I don't think zip ties would be very good for this task, unless that's the only thing you have

 

[e-rider]

What's wrong with that combination, I got John to build me a rear wheel in that style after a tip on 'Sheldon'. As I understood it though it was more to do with keeping the tension of a loaded wheel even to prevent brake 'rub' ,and believe me my Ridgeback used to get very heavily laden on jaunts up to the Peak District (at the time I used to establish a 'base camp' up there and then travel off in daily 'loops')
It would have been easier to transport everything up there by car but I don't use one of those and I do like a bit of 'luxury' in the tent, little things like a glass for drinking my Single Malt from cos it doesn't taste 'right' drinking it from a plastic vessel. and only hooligans neck it straight from the bottle.

I'd reckon the total weight of me, the bike and the luggage would have been around the 150Kg mark so assuming a 40/60 split for the weight then the back wheel would have been carrying 90Kg for the 70 miles or so there some of which was on trails (the 'Cloud' trail up to Derby and then the Tissington/High Peak from Ashbourne)
Never broke a spoke or 'buckled' a wheel doing that 2 or 3 times a year for 7/8 years and the wheels are still going strong.

plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes, or I should say plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes in a wheel. On their own they are stronger (simple physics) which is why such a design would have been conjured up by Spa in the first place. However, how spokes behave in a wheel is more complicated, and in simple terms DB spokes dissipate forces more effectively making them less likely to fail.

 

[raleighnut]

plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes, or I should say plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes in a wheel. On their own they are stronger (simple physics) which is why such a design would have been conjured up by Spa in the first place. However, how spokes behave in a wheel is more complicated, and in simple terms DB spokes dissipate forces more effectively making them less likely to fail.

I found the article which explains why it is done, it is from Sheldon Brown but the article itself was written by John Allen, it's nothing to do with strength but more with tension/stretch.

An elegant trick to build a stronger rear wheel is to use thicker spokes on the right side than on the left side. Spokes with a 2mm shaft on the right and with a 1.6 mm shaft on the left balance nicely; with this combination, spokes on both sides ring at approximately the same pitch, indicating that they are both carrying optimum tension.

You may ask why this approach makes a better wheel than using thicker spokes on both sides. After all, thick left-side spokes would be stronger. They would also at the same tension as the lighter spokes would, though at a lower musical pitch. But because they elongate less, thick spokes on the left actually go slack and give up control of the rim under a lighter weight load; and even when the load is not so great that they go slack, the rim warps to one side at the bottom of the wheel where it bears weight, due to the unequal lateral component of stiffness of the right-side and left-side spokes. The reason that thinner spokes on the left work better and last longer is that they are stretched by the same amount and have the same stiffness against lateral (side-to-side) motion of the rim as the thicker spokes on the right.

If you need instruction in wheelbuilding, read Sheldon Brown's article, on this Web site, which is as good as anything I've ever read on the subject.

 

[Moodyman]

Spa are brill. I've heard of them sending a product out first and asking for payment by return cheque.

The guy in the M+ video is Colin - the now retired master wheel builder. He regularly posts on the CTC forum and is an adherent of the Jobs Brandt wheel building school.

He built me some wheels about 8 years ago and they are as true as the day I bought them. And, I ain't light - 120kg or thereabouts.

 

[Trickedem]

I've got SPA wheels on my Van Nich and my Dawes Ultra Galaxy. Thousands of miles and still going strong. Say what you like, but I think their theory works.

 

[Pale Rider]

I rate Spa.

I bought my Brompton from them from their old shop, and on my most recent visit for a possible gravel bike purchase they were very helpful.

"Test ride what you like for as long as you like" was about the strength of it - I can't think of another shop that offers that.

They are famously grumpy, sometimes rude - I had to bite my lip a couple of times.

But they are so good at what they do, it's worth putting up with their foibles.

 

[Dogtrousers]

When I bought my bike from them I asked if I could supply my own wheels, as I had a newly built pair on my current bike. They were happy to do this, but the unwritten small print was the condition that they got to insult my wheels. I handed them over to a storm of tooth sucking and tutting. "ooh dear, who built this for you then?". Everything was wrong with them, spokes, nipples, spoke tension and all, although he had to grudgingly admit that they were, broadly speaking, round-ish.

 

[Svendo]

I once ordered some chainring spacers online as I was having chain-line issues. Chap rang up for a chat about it before he sent them to check I knew what I was doing and was getting the right thing! Don't get that with Wiggle Chain Reaction etc.

 

[Pale Rider]

I've fancied giving a leather saddle a try for a while, so called in to Spa yesterday to have a look at their own brand range.

The general touring use Nidd is the one for me, Spa number it as SO 17 - a hint to those who might have been looking at another brand.

The assistant gave me a few care and maintenance tips - I hadn't grasped the tensioner bolt is only used if the saddle spreads in use, which it might never do.

I was also offered a test on a bike fitted with a Nidd.

No fuss or drama, just 'take it for a ride'.

I had a quick look at the shiny new bikes while I was in, the Sabbaths really look the part.

Needless to say, I bought the Nidd.

Fitted it, but not been for a ride yet.

It feels rock hard - I think a love or hate relationship is about to start.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s204p2667

 

[GuyBoden]

I've fancied giving a leather saddle a try for a while, so called in to Spa yesterday to have a look at their own brand range.

The general touring use Nidd is the one for me, Spa number it as SO 17 - a hint to those who might have been looking at another brand.

The assistant gave me a few care and maintenance tips - I hadn't grasped the tensioner bolt is only used if the saddle spreads in use, which it might never do.

I was also offered a test on a bike fitted with a Nidd.

No fuss or drama, just 'take it for a ride'.

I had a quick look at the shiny new bikes while I was in, the Sabbaths really look the part.

Needless to say, I bought the Nidd.

Fitted it, but not been for a ride yet.

It feels rock hard - I think a love or hate relationship is about to start.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s204p2667

Thanks for the info, I've been interested in Spa Nidd leather saddle.

Could I ask a few questions:

1.) Is the saddle flat or convex across the width 168mm where the sit bones go?

2.) Is the material that's bonded underneath the saddle waterproof?

 

[Pale Rider]

Thanks for the info, I've been interested in Spa Nidd leather saddle.

Could I ask a few questions:

1.) Is the saddle flat or convex across the width 168mm where the sit bones go?

2.) Is the material that's bonded underneath the saddle waterproof?

A picture is worth a thousand words, although as the ruddy thing is black a pic might not be so instructive in this case.

Looks slightly convex at the rear, although I suppose a limited amount of reshaping may occur in use.

It appears to be one piece of thick leather, so I don't think there is anything bonded to the underside.

The instructions sensibly say don't leave it in heavy rain 'for long'.

Water will tend to run off the top surface, rather than soak in.

Spa include a small pot of cream to rub in, although I've not reached that advanced stage of leather saddle use yet.

The man in the shop said putting the cream on while playing a hair dryer on the saddle will speed the soaking in process.

Alternatively, it needs to be left at least overnight.

I might have a play with that tomorrow evening, after which I won't be using the bike for a couple of days.

 

[GuyBoden]

A picture is worth a thousand words, although as the ruddy thing is black a pic might not be so instructive in this case.

Looks slightly convex at the rear, although I suppose a limited amount of reshaping may occur in use.

It appears to be one piece of thick leather, so I don't think there is anything bonded to the underside.

The instructions sensibly say don't leave it in heavy rain 'for long'.

Water will tend to run off the top surface, rather than soak in.

Spa include a small pot of cream to rub in, although I've not reached that advanced stage of leather saddle use yet.

The man in the shop said putting the cream on while playing a hair dryer on the saddle will speed the soaking in process.

Alternatively, it needs to be left at least overnight.

I might have a play with that tomorrow evening, after which I won't be using the bike for a couple of days.

View attachment 124251

Many thanks, the saddle looks good, it does look slightly convex, I wonder if it flattens when you sit on it.
Thanks again for the info, it will be interesting to hear how you get on with the saddle.

 

[confusedcyclist]

Dave @ Spa Cycles has just done me a cracking set of Sputniks/XTs for my new Surly Disc Trucker build, I was going to build my own wheels but after mucking up the hub/rim measurements twice (not sure what happened there, I have built a few wheels in my time!) I got desperate and ordered a hand built wheelset. The Spa cycles website had some odd combinations of rims/spokes counts and hubs. I was tired when I made the order and didn't think much of ordering 32 spoke TOURING wheels with black hubs and silver rims...

Thankfully Dave gave me a call the following morning to suggest I opt for 36 spokes on the rear and to swap out the silver rims for black so it looked better. Top service! If you're reading this Dave and co, thanks very much for a job well done!

 

[iandg]

I use Spa regularly for various bits and bobs - bought my cross-check from there and had them build the wheels for it too. Wheels in my audax/tourer are from Spa too.

I like the fact you can phone and 'ask' before buying and get good advice. Good delivery to the Outer Herbrides too (they phoned me prior to my last wheel delivery to say that they thought their usual courier service was over-priced and would I like them to use parcel force instead)