sore knees
- Thread starter k turner
- Start date
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jasper
Senior Member
As said before, don't be concerned about gears...use cadence as your guide. No matter what terrain, spin between 80-95 RPM, even uphill. Use your gears accordingly to maintain the revolutions. After a while you won't need to count, you will be able to judge the cadence. As a rule of thumb, if you are grinding the gears, change down as grinding will do your knees no favours.
Andy in Sig
Vice President in Exile
- Location
- Sigmaringen, Germany
Start off on the ring which feels comfortable i.e. your legs are like a car engine and you wouldn't start that in fourth gear, would you? Use gear combinations according to the same principle and I would suggest that in general terms it might be an idea on two consecutive days to stick to gentle gearing for each bit and on the third day go up by one in each situation, thus continuing your improvement and then the two easier days will allow for recovery and build up.
The Sheldon Brown website is regarded as the doyen of cycling websites. Just google that name. I'm a firm believer in having a book as, unlike a website, you can have it by you while you're fiddling with the bike. The one I recommended certainly boosted my fiddling confidence when I took up cycling and is still my first port of call for info.
The Sheldon Brown website is regarded as the doyen of cycling websites. Just google that name. I'm a firm believer in having a book as, unlike a website, you can have it by you while you're fiddling with the bike. The one I recommended certainly boosted my fiddling confidence when I took up cycling and is still my first port of call for info.
I would suggest mini toe-clips like these. They stop your foot slipping off but are very easy to get in and out of. My wife uses similiar.
What Andy says is absolutely correct and a true understanding of gears does become necessary at some point, I was just thinking this might not be quite the right moment to worry about it, unless you've got chain rub going on.
What Andy says is absolutely correct and a true understanding of gears does become necessary at some point, I was just thinking this might not be quite the right moment to worry about it, unless you've got chain rub going on.
Crackle - these look just like the ones for stirrups on a horse, but in that case they stop your foot going through the stirrup and getting stuck. they are similar to the ones on the recumbent bike, I think they will work well for stopping my foot going up or out and yes they are easy to get out of on a horse anyway. Down the shop on Saturday.
Checked the mobile, bike computer and HRM and cant set any of them for 15 seconds. Even if I set it for a minute, I have to exit my alarm setting function bang on time for a whole minute. Impossible. Will just get hold of one of the kids on the street later today and give the watch to them to shout "15", hope I am not too far away to hear.
Spent a lot of time on Sydney Sheldon when I first got the bike, may be time to go back there now and see what else I can find. BicycleTutor is my favourit for fixing things. I download and can then start and stop as many times as I want whilst doing something.
Thanks guys, will report back the candence thing later or tomorrow. Is there any way to divide the mile by the time and get a candence? Would only give average though not flat and hills seperately.
Checked the mobile, bike computer and HRM and cant set any of them for 15 seconds. Even if I set it for a minute, I have to exit my alarm setting function bang on time for a whole minute. Impossible. Will just get hold of one of the kids on the street later today and give the watch to them to shout "15", hope I am not too far away to hear.
Spent a lot of time on Sydney Sheldon when I first got the bike, may be time to go back there now and see what else I can find. BicycleTutor is my favourit for fixing things. I download and can then start and stop as many times as I want whilst doing something.
Thanks guys, will report back the candence thing later or tomorrow. Is there any way to divide the mile by the time and get a candence? Would only give average though not flat and hills seperately.
purplemoon
New Member
- Location
- Cambs/Suffolk
k turner said:
I'm assuming you're mounting from the nearside, same as mounting a horse, but can't help wondering whether you're making it more difficult for yourself by leaning the bike away from you. I also mount from the left (old habits die hard!) but I lean the bike towards me so it's low enough to swing my right leg over the saddle then use the right pedal to move off and pull myself up onto the seat.
Now to do this would mean standing on your left leg which you say is the one you have problems with, so I'm wondering whether it would be possible for you to mount from the offside, leaning the bike towards you and basically reversing the movements above so you pedal off with your left leg.
Hope I haven't confused you, it's much easier to show someone in person than describe in words
k turner said:. Is there any way to divide the mile by the time and get a candence? Would only give average though not flat and hills seperately.
No but if you know what gear you are riding and what speed I can tell you your cadence.
At the risk of getting you lost here, the gear is determined by how many teeth are on the cogs (forgive me if you know this). So if your front ring is say 30 teeth and the rear cog you are using is 25, you are riding a 30x25 which gives you a gear of 31.25 inches (all gears are measured in inches). This is a very low or easy gear a gear of 100 would be at the other end of the spectum i.e. quite hard.
Anyway if when using this gear you are doing 7.5mph, then you are doing a cadence of 80rpm.
Knowing this information is the only way to calculate cadence without a computer.
What you do is count your teeth (if you don't know what they are), on each cog and make a chart i.e.
..............................rear cogs
.............................12 15 17
Front chainrings 30 66 53 11
........................42 92 74 65 etc....
By doing this, you get to see where gears overlap and get a feel for which gears you use most. You can see above that a 42x17 is the same gear as 30x12 but as Andy was saying the 30x12 is not a gear you'd use because it gives the chainline a rather severe angle and will probably rub on the front mech. So the ones in red might exist but be unusable. The gear chart also allows you to make calculations on your cadence.
It looks complex and awkward, I know but it slowly begins to unravel itself as you become familiar with the concepts and is a ultimately a very powerful tool.
If you do want to have a go at it I can let you have a spreadsheet I've set up which does all the calulation on your behalf once you enter the gears and speed.
Hope this doesn't confuse.
purplemoon
New Member
- Location
- Cambs/Suffolk
Ooooo I'd love the spreadsheet if you don't mind Crackle 
I've been following the gear thing and learning about cadence over the last few days and starting to get the hang of spinning rather than grinding but I don't actually know what my cadence is.
I've also experienced the chain rub and wondered if my gears were slightly out of alignment but now realise I'm using the wrong gears and doing the diagonal stretch thing
Mine is a 24 speed (3x8) and I either use gears 1/5-8 or 2/1-3 and can manage around 12mph so guess I need to re-think how I use the gears
I've been following the gear thing and learning about cadence over the last few days and starting to get the hang of spinning rather than grinding but I don't actually know what my cadence is.
I've also experienced the chain rub and wondered if my gears were slightly out of alignment but now realise I'm using the wrong gears and doing the diagonal stretch thing
Mine is a 24 speed (3x8) and I either use gears 1/5-8 or 2/1-3 and can manage around 12mph so guess I need to re-think how I use the gears
purplemoon
New Member
- Location
- Cambs/Suffolk
Done!
Auntie Helen
Ich bin Powerfrau!
- Location
- 47906 Kempen, Germany
I'd like a copy of the spreadsheet too and will PM Crackle my address.
I'm a recumbent trike rider and I seem to find that I seem to be pedalling slower than most other cyclists I see, although going at the same speed. I tend not to push too hard on the pedals, if that makes sense, and change down early for the hills (my trike goes up hills like treacle). However if my legs are spinning too fast I find it uncomfortable. Is there any difference in cadence style for recumbents or am I just going about it wrong?
I'm a recumbent trike rider and I seem to find that I seem to be pedalling slower than most other cyclists I see, although going at the same speed. I tend not to push too hard on the pedals, if that makes sense, and change down early for the hills (my trike goes up hills like treacle). However if my legs are spinning too fast I find it uncomfortable. Is there any difference in cadence style for recumbents or am I just going about it wrong?
Auntie Helen
Ich bin Powerfrau!
- Location
- 47906 Kempen, Germany
Yep, 20" wheels all round, although I'm about to fit Big Apple tyres all round which I'm sure is good for an extra inch
Nick1979
New Member
- Location
- London (SW11)
Really impressive progress KTurner!
The two more common causes of knee pain for new cyclists are a too slow cadence ("grinding") and a saddle too low. So you have to be especially careful with both.
* Cadence too low:
For most riders, 80 rpm (on the flat) is a minimum to be efficient and friendly to your knees. You should aim for 90-100 and be a true "spinner". Don't worry about being more out of breath with a faster cadence, it's actually because you are going faster! Pedalling fast is a habit to train, at the beginning you will find it awkward and tend to bounce on the saddle, but after some time it becomes natural.
You can use a cadence monitor but it's not too hard to count (for example 10s and multiply by 6, or 15 and multiply by 4). Using your speed and a chart might seem a bit complicated, but it's also a very good alternative (find a long straight bit of road and ride at a constant speed, noting which gear you are on). You only need to do that a few times to get a feel of what the cadence is, after that you will "know" at what cadence you pedal.
You raised a very good point by saying your feet fly out of the pedals when pedalling at high cadence. I honestly don't think it is possible to pedal at 90/100rpm on flat pedals. As you have certainly spent some time on this forum, I'm sure you already know the answer: clipless pedals. I know it tends to scare a lot of people but they are very very safe! Avoid the old style toe clips, they are either useless (if loose) or dangerous (if tight), SPD pedals on the lightest tension setting are VERY easy to get out, much easier than toe clips!
Having only one good leg for stopping on is not really an issue really. All clipless users (that I know at least!) have a favourite leg they always use for stopping: I always use my left one, and my right shoe stay clipped in from the beginning to the end of the ride. I just instinctively lean the bike a bit to the left (like you do I'm sure) when stopping and unclip my left foot, I think I have NEVER stopped on my right leg at all.
In addition, as your ride is hilly, you will develop muscles that are currently unused by pulling on the pedals (in addition to pushing): better for your knee, easier, and smoother pedalling!
* Saddle too low:
This is very important as well for your knees. I don't really know what advice to give you regarding you finding difficult to get on the bike but you have to find a way to have your saddle at the right height to avoid hurting your knees. I'm sure someone here can recommend a method to determine the right height (knee bent at 20 degrees when at the bottom of the pedal stroke? is it right?)
Don't worry too much about using 'wrong' gear combinations, even if it's not ideal, modern transmissions cope with this without any problem. Just try to avoid the 'extreme' combination (smallest ring with smallest cog) and you'll be fine, apart from this one, feel free to use all your gears, they are there for that!!
The two more common causes of knee pain for new cyclists are a too slow cadence ("grinding") and a saddle too low. So you have to be especially careful with both.
* Cadence too low:
For most riders, 80 rpm (on the flat) is a minimum to be efficient and friendly to your knees. You should aim for 90-100 and be a true "spinner". Don't worry about being more out of breath with a faster cadence, it's actually because you are going faster! Pedalling fast is a habit to train, at the beginning you will find it awkward and tend to bounce on the saddle, but after some time it becomes natural.
You can use a cadence monitor but it's not too hard to count (for example 10s and multiply by 6, or 15 and multiply by 4). Using your speed and a chart might seem a bit complicated, but it's also a very good alternative (find a long straight bit of road and ride at a constant speed, noting which gear you are on). You only need to do that a few times to get a feel of what the cadence is, after that you will "know" at what cadence you pedal.
You raised a very good point by saying your feet fly out of the pedals when pedalling at high cadence. I honestly don't think it is possible to pedal at 90/100rpm on flat pedals. As you have certainly spent some time on this forum, I'm sure you already know the answer: clipless pedals. I know it tends to scare a lot of people but they are very very safe! Avoid the old style toe clips, they are either useless (if loose) or dangerous (if tight), SPD pedals on the lightest tension setting are VERY easy to get out, much easier than toe clips!
Having only one good leg for stopping on is not really an issue really. All clipless users (that I know at least!) have a favourite leg they always use for stopping: I always use my left one, and my right shoe stay clipped in from the beginning to the end of the ride. I just instinctively lean the bike a bit to the left (like you do I'm sure) when stopping and unclip my left foot, I think I have NEVER stopped on my right leg at all.
In addition, as your ride is hilly, you will develop muscles that are currently unused by pulling on the pedals (in addition to pushing): better for your knee, easier, and smoother pedalling!
* Saddle too low:
This is very important as well for your knees. I don't really know what advice to give you regarding you finding difficult to get on the bike but you have to find a way to have your saddle at the right height to avoid hurting your knees. I'm sure someone here can recommend a method to determine the right height (knee bent at 20 degrees when at the bottom of the pedal stroke? is it right?)
Don't worry too much about using 'wrong' gear combinations, even if it's not ideal, modern transmissions cope with this without any problem. Just try to avoid the 'extreme' combination (smallest ring with smallest cog) and you'll be fine, apart from this one, feel free to use all your gears, they are there for that!!
