sore knees

[k turner]

Are there any muscles inside your knee that can be fittened up like my thigh and calf muscles?

I am only using gears 1-7 on the small ring and everytime I try to go up to the middle ring, where it is harder to push, I get sore knees.

I have moved the seat up and forward, and it is not discomfort from the angle I dont think.

I have some loose cartilage and osteoarthritis in them both, and was wondering if this was being irritated, or if I continue and push through it, I could get my knees fitter. They grind on the inside when walking and going up stairs if I have been trying the middle ring again.

Can you get your knees fitter, or is this my limit? Been riding nearly 3 months, same distance and route everyday.

 

[Keith Oates]

I can't answer your question directly as I'm not a Doctor or medical person but I would think it's best if you consult a qualified sports Doctor or similar to get useful information. I hope that if you do that you will learn how to overcome the problem!!!!!!

 

[Andy in Sig]

I would think now that you have got yourself established as a cyclist i.e. you're body is used to doing your distance and your fitness levels have reached a new level, that maybe now is the proper time to go to a genuine specialist sports doctor or sports physio and get your riding position, physiological performance etc. properly assessed. It would be terrible if you would give yourself a chronic injury simply for want of modifying or improving something which you do.

I would have thought that your doctor would be happy to back such a move as the whole thing is geared to improving and maintaining your overall condition.

Did you take a look at suspension seat posts by the way?

 

[k turner]

Andy - not bothered with a suspension seat post, I stand over the bumpy road bits, and when my gluteals start to cramp I use the downhills to stand and have a good stretch. I still cant pedal standing though, due to much needed ACL surgery, which I am avoiding, my knee wobbles and threatens to dislocate if I try pedalling, so I am leaving that out, and just sit to pedal again. Hinged brace rubs and is too uncomfortable and I stopped using that after the first week of cyclling. Just make sure I always stand on right leg for stopping and starting.

My original question, I think you have answered by saying get a "vet check". I still dont know if you can get your knees fitter though. How will the doc know if I am at my physical peak / capability? I am sure I have a long way to go if I am still only doing a short ride, although trying harder gears and getting there and back faster seems to me a way to keep improving.

Everything I have read on hear makes me think I am a whimp for only staying on the small ring, and only doing 8mph. Surely that cant be the limit of my fitness!!!!

 

[Globalti]

Well, no.... but you could make the bike roll faster by judicious use of the gears while not stressing those knees. The secret is always keep in an easy gear and spin fairly fast, I believe you should be aiming at a cadence of around 80 full revolutions a minute. This means you won't be grinding and putting stress on your knees.

Is your seat at the right height and angle? There's lots on the web about this.

 

[k turner]

Seat is definately correct now after much messing around! I think? My neighbour moved it forward and higher a few times, then I put it down a little as it was too difficult to get on.

I was thinking of trying drop handle bars as I bend down on the steep hills and push hard, and it is easier on my back being rounded. I seem to have much more power this way. Will I need to build up arm muscles? When I lean forward, it is like riding the pony, I feel much more in balance and closer to the bike. Maybe I should ask my neighbour to try a set first.

My 21yr old daughter just moved out last week and left me her recumbant, household cycle. Could I build up fitness on this instead of having all these hills around me.

I am sure I could go much further on the flat. (Sheffield hills). I just have to get to the flat which involves too many hills. Sold the car, so no help there.

What can I do on the recumbant? I seem to go for ages on there. Half an hour is nothing. Outside on the real bike I am taking 8-12 minutes to go one mile. Are there any muscles in your knees?

 

[Globalti]

I'm concerned to read that you lowered the seat. The correct height is when your bare heel just contacts the pedal at the bottom of its stroke with the leg relaxed, i.e. not stretched. If this means it's hard to get on the saddle, so be it; you are better off learning to mount the bike than riding around with the saddle too low, which will damage your knees.

Have you considered going into a bike shop (not Halfrauds) and asking for their advice?

 

[Crackle]

I'm no expert but I speak as someone who has what in comparison is fairly minor trouble with knees.

As I understand it, there are no muscles in kness but there are tendons and cartilage. Put in laymans terms, stengthening the muscles around the knees will stretch the tendons and help stabilise the knee.

For me, cycling is very good for this and cycling causes me few problems, whereas with something like football I have to be careful when kicking the ball. I still get knee pain and stiffness and for cycling I find it essential that I spin rather than grind. A cadence of 70 and above, ideally 80 or 90 puts far less strain on the knees.

I'd echo the advice above about seeing a specialist. They may well be able to give you leg excercises to develop muscles around the knee which will stabilise it more. I'd also read a lot more about positioning. It may be the recommended ideal is not something your knees can manage. I always found seat height, even minor adjustments, makes the most profound difference to my knee comfort.

 

[k turner]

Thanks everyone. I will take out my knee strengthening exercises I got from the physio for the ACL op. It was to strenghthen the muscles around the knees which becomes a natural stabiliser to avoid the ACL op. The exercises didnt work, as I had muscle wastage on my whole body and couldnt do the excercises very well anyway.

I dont dare put the seat up any more as I can only stand on my right leg for getting on and off, and because of broken vertebrae and ruptured discs I cant swing my leg behind to get on. I use a mounting block to get on the pony who is less than 5 foot and put my leg over his head and slide down to get off! So you can see that mounting a bike gives me the same problems. I lean it away from me and put my foot through the middle then use the bad leg to push off with as I have to stand on the good one, and hop onto the seat once moving. Complicated, but works.

I will check the candence when I have someone with me that can either count or watch the clock, I cant do both.

The easier gears are great, but I just feel that I should be going up the gears. With most things in life I go further, faster, more strain etc, so that when you have to do what you need it is easier. Like riding 100 miles when you are practicing for 50. Then the 50 would be a breeze. Is my logic wrong for cycling?

Maybe it is just my obsession with trying to get better, and therefore overdoing things in my race against time. Of course there is no time limit or anything else pressurising me really, I just want to be able to do what everyone else does.

It would be much easier if I just stayed on the small ring and forgot about improving, but my head cant do that, although I have doubts about the body being able to do it as well. lol

 

[k turner]

PS. Would the NHS only send me to the normal physio, how can I get them to send me to a Sports Physio, or how much are they to pay private?

 

[Crackle]

I just read some of your other posts: Deep respect for having the courage to do this in the face of so many physical troubles.

If I read it right you're making progress already. Which ring you're on doesn't really matter. There's a lot of overlap in cycling gears. So just by going on to the middle ring does not mean you are using a higher gear. Instead measure your progress by your time and by your stops and discomfort, I wouldn't worry about which gears.

Under your circumstances I would concentrate much more on cadence and maybe buy a computer which has cadence on it. You then match your gears to your cadence. This will make you more effecient than just trying to mash gears around. If you want a rough idea now, count how many times your left knee comes up in the space of 15 seconds and multiply the result by 4.

There's a physio place near me, who you can see privately. They have people there who specialise in different areas of the body and in different techniques, including stuff like acupuncture. I think it's about £25/30 per session and I would try to get your doctor to refer you to one. Explaining first what you are trying to achieve out of it and why, in order to get referred to the right physio specialist.

Good luck and keep it up.

 

[k turner]

I will concentrate on candence, I have a computer built into the front light, which I bought at Lidll special last month. It doesnt have candence, but has a stop watch. I dont think you can set it to stop after 15 seconds though. I will try putting an alarm on my mobile if you can do seconds, otherwise I will have to count a whole minute.

I find I get out of breath quicker when pedalling faster, so I could concentrate on that side of my fitness and forget about the muscles in the legs. I also have a heart rate monitor which I havent used for about a month, so I should have a look on that and see if I have improved there. I may be getting fitter on the inside, but just not seeing any improvement on the outside (muscle and knee ache).

Another problem of pedalling faster and going down hill, my feet keep flying off the pedals. I know the answer to that is those clips on your shoes and pedals, but I am worried about getting out of them quick enough to land on my good leg. If I land on the other one, I wont be walking for 3months never mind cycling, could put me back a year.

Can you get straps, like the recumbant one has, that would be easier to get out of?

 

[Andy in Sig]

If you're using all 1-7 gears in combination with the small ring, you are definitely doing neither yourself nor the chain any favours due to the loss of efficiency and wear on the chain when it is running almost diagonally from back to front. As a rule the smallest ring at the front should be used with the biggest 3-4 at the back, the middle ring with the middle 4 and the Big ring at the front with the smallest 3-4 at the back. This exploits gear overlap.

I still think you could do with one overall reference book to read during the long winter evenings which covers all aspects of the bike and cycling. My recommendation is Bicycle Technology by Rob van den Plas, although I'm sure other people would favour other books.

 

[k turner]

PS. Will try cycling for 15 seconds one handed, cant do that yet, can only do a quick look at watch at the moment. That should keep me amused for a while!!!!

 

[k turner]

Andy - I find that 1-4 on the middle ring is OK for the flat but change back to small ring and 2 or 3 at the back for the hills.

It is too hard to push off on the middle ring, if I am already going it is ok and it is less revolutions for the legs and not a strain. Should I be starting on the small ring and then changing to middle or should I learn to start with the middle ring?

Will definately get a book for winter as I want to learn more about maintenance as I am single (no men about to do it for me), like doing it myself anyway in case I have to sort out a problem away from home. There are lots of courses to go on in the south but none in the north.