Slowly slaying the high cadence myth....

[Fab Foodie]

Without wishing to seem argumentative - why is that?

Surely you have to do the same amount of work, either pedalling slow or fast, so the CV system has to deliver the same fuel and oxygen, so has to work just as hard in both cases. Or am I wrong?

Now, if your slower cadence was brutally tooth-grindingly slow then maybe I could understand it, due to different metabolic pathways - maybe anaerobic work being done. But if slow is say 60 and high is say 90 then I imagine the metabolism is similar in both cases.

I've heard this stated before and I've always wondered this. If the CV system gets an easier ride at lower cadences then surely that implies that they are more efficient?

I'm not a biochemist so I don't really know what I'm on about.

I am a Biochemist and I still don’t know!
My own experience is that high cadence riding gets-me very out of breath for no benefit compared to my slower natural grind.

 

[matticus]

Based on my years of bike riding, clubs, zillions of cyclists I have mett and ridden with, none to date have complained ever of bad knees as a result of cycling.

That is a pretty plain statement.

Glad you've rowed back on it now :P

 

[Fab Foodie]

That is a pretty plain statement.

Glad you've rowed back on it now :P

I haven’t. I had never come across one at the time of writing. Get a grip man.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I haven’t. I had never come across one at the time of writing. Get a grip man.
Find some evidence that it’s the case and prove me wrong.

 

[matticus]

You conflated "low cadence creates knee troubles"
with
"cycling has never given anyone knee troubles".*

It's bygones now, but I'm happy to pin the blame on you for that one :-x

 

[rogerzilla]

Go and ride fixed...you have no control over cadence, except for the fixed gear ratio you choose (which should be about getting down a reasonably long hill safely). All you can change, when riding, is torque. It's surprising how tolerant your legs are. I've knocked around on a 90" gear getting to and from TTs, and it was just fine.

 

[Fab Foodie]

You conflated "low cadence creates knee troubles"
with
"cycling has never given anyone knee troubles".*

It's bygones now, but I'm happy to pin the blame on you for that one :-x

My points still stands as of the time of writing. So please, if there is a wealth of evidence out there (Or even a general agreed acknowledgement) that cycling causes knee problems in general or that low cadence cycling in particular causes knee trouble, bring it forward for debate. Am happy to be educated.

 

[matticus]

Cycling AND low-cadence cycling have led to knee trouble! But not for all cyclists (or all low-cadence cyclists).

This won't stop me cycling though ...

 

[ColinJ]

I'm just a physicist who's read a bit around sports fizzyology, so no ex-spurt; but I'd agree with the above.

(the only extra energy required for higher cadence is the energy needed to actually spin your legs. VERY difficult to measure, sadly!)

I agree with you. It would be interesting to get someone to do the experiment. I suggest taking the pawls out of the freehub so the chain could still be driven round, but the bike could remain stationary on a turbo trainer. (You could just remove the chain, but that would be one step further from normal riding.)

 

[StuAff]

It's a very high cadence myth, really…
A casual google does show some evidence, with expert citation, of knee pain as a result of low cadence…for example....
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/cycling-knee-pain-everything-you-need-to-know-329957
Not enough medical input?
Try https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5717478/

80-85 rpm seems to be generally considered the sweet spot for most, 60-75 too low for most. 90+ best left to the (serious) racers, as @Fab Foodie 's link suggests. Certainly don't follow the example of many casual riders (not all on BSOs) of small chainring/small sprocket (often, along with saddle height too low, underinflated tyres) spinning like a loon and barely moving…

I have seen riders hurting themselves through grinding at too high a gear. Kim C's lad joined her on one of the Whitstable runs and was quite insistently doing just that, he was certainly having problems later on though I can't remember if he got to breakfast or not. One of the many things I learned from the rides for food was the importance of spinning rather than grinding- my lower cadence was commented on a couple of times, and I did notice others seemed to have a rather easier pedalling style, so I tried to do the same. Gear down a sprocket or two, spin more…it worked. Getting the Trek helped, too…52/42/30 triple. Big ring doesn't get much use, and nor should it…

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

The takeaway from the CW article and the science is that a fit issue will exacerbate issues that manifest at the knee joint but is not necessarily the issue. If that manifest happens to align with a sudden increase of workload (overuse) or taking on some high or low cadence training

In the same way that saddle sores or genital discomfort are most likely not caused by the saddle but by poor interaction with it, usually via excessive saddle height and instability of the feet.

 

[Sharky]

A lot of posts on this thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned already.

If you need to keep changing speed, as in bunch racing, a lower gear/high cadence will make it easier to accelerate. In a time trial or on a steady club run, the need to keep changing speed is not applicable and riding a higher gear/lower cadence is just as efficient.

I usually ride a 95" fixed for TT's and in previous years have compared the fixed with my similar spec'd gears bike. Over the season there was less than 20seconds difference on the same 10 mile TT course. On the geared bike, I would have dropped the gears on the hilly bits and increased cadence. But overall makes little difference.

 

[CXRAndy]

Lots of anecdotal evidence comments. Just because some can't adapt to using a higher cadence doesn't mean its not the most effective way to cycle, especially for long distance, consecutive multi day rides/ or racing.


Power is developed from torque (force applied to pedals and speed(cadence)

Using a high cadence is useful as some have mentioned, in pace changes where rapid acceleration is needed. Its much easier physically to increase a light pressure cadence by 10rpm than stomp on the pedals with a low cadence. And acceleration will be faster. Racing is an example.

Long distance riding, it has benefits too, you dont deplete the glycogen in your muscles so quickly by having a light pressure high cadence pedal action. This allows a higher portion of energy to be taken from fat reserves, reducing calories by mouth. Cycle further for less input.


Professional riders produce more power than us mere mortal cyclists, because they're stronger to be able to push a harder gear, still at higher cadences. So they benefit from what I said above.

The downside, well its not a downside, is its hard on the cardiovascular system, higher heart rate/breathing. It can feel like your lungs are near bursting, especially as you near threshold powers. But its only a case of training to adapt to the sensation.

The upside is cardiovascular vascular recovery is very quick indeed, as in a matter of minutes once you stop. Unlike muscles, where once depleted of glycogen take many hours of rest and nutrition to restore full potential.


I agree using a lower cadence can produce a bit more power, but not sustainable over many hours(suited to shorter rides). Lower cadences feel more comfortable as it lowers the stress on lungs, but if you try and try cycle at threshold with lower cadence, you are burning glycogen rapidly whilst running near maximum heart rate.

Just try riding up a steep hill with a low cadence at threshold power, do it again and again. I bet you will stop more quickly(legs burning from the effort) than trying the same with a higher cadence, that transfers more effort to the cardiovascular system.

 

[CXRAndy]

I do tend to get slower as I get tired. So towards the end of a long ride I may not slow down all that much but I do tend to push a higher gear. No idea why..

That's normal, as fatigue rises. Your body naturally adjusts to keep going.


Ive done exactly the same, but I find if I spend more time spinning in the earlier part of a long ride, I have something left in the legs to push the pace, or in club rides where the youngsters push the homeward pace higher, where lots of strength is required to stay (try, usually failing) with them.

 

[fossyant]

First road ride today in a long time - nice quiet roads in North Wales. Found I was spinning along at 90 rpm or above (unless climbing) - not had cadence for any rides other than Zwift, where that's 70-100rpm. It's probably down to MTB-ing I'm running a bit higher cadence than I thought - 100 rpm was ideal today, at 24-25 mph.