should they bring in rules and laws for cyclists? (please read before shooting me down)

[HobbesOnTour]

Fear not; the UK has police who are pro-active in this area!

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Is that tweet not the perfect example of the misinformation that is out there and the need to get back to basics?

Many years ago I fell off my bike in Edinburgh on the way home from the Tron after the Police put on their blue lights. The friendly Policeman had the good grace to laugh when I sugggested I only fell off when they put on the lights. His only concern was that I got home safely.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Fear not; the UK has police who are pro-active in this area!

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The replies are entertaining.


View: https://twitter.com/EdinPolNE/status/1600800954214977537

 

[TK421]

I think the issue with this would be that a lot of cyclists are using their bikes purely as a means of transport.

There are a lot of people that as a car/van driver I would class as a bicycle rider not a cyclist. Please note that I don't consider myself a motorist, I am a car/van driver, I use motorised vehicles as a means to an end just as many riding a bike who have never read the Highway Code (which I have) for anything that they do on public roads. Cyclists to me, are like motorists in that they have a passion and an interest in what they do and enjoy and promote the benefits of cycling/motoring. The past couple of months I have been blessed with the collective wisdom of the Cyclists here on CycleChat.

In my opinion it's not about rules or laws but about attitudes. When someone is demonised they're not going to listen to a reasoned point or reflect on their behaviour

The biggest problem in this country is that the culture for decades has promoted car ownership to the point where it is a necessity just to live.
The media in all forms has a habit of demonising anybody and everybody in a sensationalist way to promote their own cause. You don't even need to look hard on the net to find car drivers, van drivers, lorry drivers, e-bike/scooter riders and cyclists are a vilified somewhere.
I'm just a skeptical cynic who shall continue to ask questions, learn from others as well as my own mistakes and take nothing at face value. Oh, and I am already planning on bikeability lessons for myself, as I have been impressed by the level of training my 2 oldest girls have received and the way all the schools in the local area all use them.
If anything the cycling proficiency responsibility should be not at the individual level but at the educational level to improve society and in turn the culture and improve the situation for all.

 

[matticus]

Is that tweet not the perfect example of the misinformation that is out there and the need to get back to basics?

It strongly suggests the police need to know the law better.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

The biggest problem in this country is that the culture for decades has promoted car ownership to the point where it is a necessity just to live.

Again, the point I am trying to make is that rather than looking inwards, look outwards.

I´m pretty sure that Dutch car ownership is pretty high. It is possible to develop a type of harmony. Not necessarily quickly. But possible. Spain`s road network has expanded hugely since it joined the EU and the result is wonderful roads for biking! And pretty much excellent, if quirky, infrastructure in cities.

The media in all forms has a habit of demonising anybody and everybody in a sensationalist way to promote their own cause.

The media is supported by advertising.
We have seen numerous examples of advertisers pulling their spend from outlets for a variety of reasons.
Just taking cycling as an example, why is there never a backlash from a cycling organisation for a particularly imbecilic and negative cycling story that encourages focused advertisers to limit their spend with the perpetrator?
That will sort the media problem sharpish.

Actually, have I just answered my own question? Who or what is there to speak on behalf of the person on a bike in the UK? Isn´t there some petro chemically sponsored organisation? What do they do?

Taking that tweet from the Police above as an example, the responses are from individuals (that I have seen). Is that not a perfect opportunity for the "Cyclist´s Union" to demand a sit down with the people charged with enforcing the law? Individuals heaping abuse is great to vent but not terribly productive in the long run.

If anything the cycling proficiency responsibility should be not at the individual level but at the educational level to improve society and in turn the culture and improve the situation for all.

Schools provide cycling lessons in NL. It´s not unusual to see large groups of students (with teacher supervising) travelling somewhere on their bikes. Bikes are as usual as schoolbags.

 

[Oldhippy]

@HobbesOnTour you are a brilliant advocate for all things cycling. I hope one day you write your thoughts on the subject.

 

[BoldonLad]

Who is going to be enforcing these new laws?
No one enforces the current ones.

Edit. Not strictly true, I have been pulled over once for going the wrong way down a one way street.

It may not be strictly true, but, it very nearly is.

I dont see much point in introducing new laws/rules, until we begin to enforce those we already have.

 

[All uphill]

Bikes are as usual as schoolbags.

For me that is the important thing. When people on bikes are everywhere, and people on foot are everywhere they becomes normal and expected, and the vast majority of motor vehicle drivers modify their behaviour accordingly.

Two recent examples local to me:

The town where I live has twice the national proportion of local journeys made by bike; drivers are ime courteous and patient 99.9% of the time. It's just the norm.
A neighbouring town has less than the national proportion and feels unsafe to me; I'm the oddity that disrupts drivers' autopilots.

Second example: There is a heavily used footpath and cyclepath leading from the town to a local college. Pedestrians stick to their side and cyclists to theirs. Doing anything else would risk injury or insult.

I don't think people are necessarily more considerate or have a better attitude in NL or in my town, its just that the prevalence of walkers and cyclists changes expectations and the norm.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

@HobbesOnTour you are a brilliant advocate for all things cycling. I hope one day you write your thoughts on the subject.

All things cycling? Not at all!
You'll never catch me advocating for racing and the like. Or those electric gear changing thingies Hell, 8 speed is about as fancy as I aspire to
And lycra? Not on my tapas influenced body

But I'm not from the UK so my perspective is different.

Whether it's NACA stuff or biking stuff there's far too much black and white, far too much volume and not enough listening. Until a few weeks ago I was moving to a new place nearly every day in foreign parts. If I don't "listen" to what's going on around me I'll struggle. If I can't change my perspective I'll have problem after problem.

 

[Oldhippy]

But as a daily form of transport to take you where it has must have inspired so many more than I. The racing, lycra, gimmicks that don't really need inventing are a sideshow compared to what travel can do to widen perspectives on life.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

When people on bikes are everywhere, and people on foot are everywhere they becomes normal and expected, and the vast majority of motor vehicle drivers modify their behaviour accordingly.

Exactly!

The trick is to get people on bikes everywhere. I think dialling down the friction would be a good start.

I don't think people are necessarily more considerate or have a better attitude in NL or in my town, its just that the prevalence of walkers and cyclists changes expectations and the norm

I agree 100%, but to be pedantic the attitude is that the bike has a right to be there might be different. However, try taking your bike where you're not supposed to and that attitude changes significantly. Lost (not unusual for me!) in Arnhem on my way to a gig on the bike I misread my gps and ended up going the wrong way on an empty one-way street. I was duly pulled by the cops. Ditto try riding on a road where there's a compulsory cycle lane close by.

So, as well as getting more people out on bikes more often there may also be a need to make sure that the people on bikes behave within certain paramaters.

 

[All uphill]

Exactly!

The trick is to get people on bikes everywhere. I think dialling down the friction would be a good start.



I agree 100%, but to be pedantic the attitude is that the bike has a right to be there might be different. However, try taking your bike where you're not supposed to and that attitude changes significantly. Lost (not unusual for me!) in Arnhem on my way to a gig on the bike I misread my gps and ended up going the wrong way on an empty one-way street. I was duly pulled by the cops. Ditto try riding on a road where there's a compulsory cycle lane close by.

So, as well as getting more people out on bikes more often there may also be a need to make sure that the people on bikes behave within certain paramaters.

Agreed.

We are very lucky here in Taunton to have a persistent and positive cycle campaign group which, I am sure, has an effect over a period of years to normalise cycling

I've commented before on living near Groningen in the early 1980s and experiencing the same friction between motorists, buses, pedestrians and cyclists that we see in many places in the UK, so I know things can change.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

 

[Dogtrousers]

You need to define exactly what the problem is that you are trying to solve before you start inventing solutions, and demonstrate that it really does exist. And no, anecdotes that "I once saw ..." are not any help in doing this. You need statistics.

Then you need to demonstrate that your solutions would actually address the problem, and by how much.

Then come back and try again

 

[Alex321]

It strongly suggests the police need to know the law better.

I see nothing in it which suggests that. The start of that Tweet thread says "Our officers were busy on Tuesday conducting a number of road checks as part of the festive drink/drug drive campaign as well as educating a number of road users of the highway code"

The highway code says you should wear a helmet. So speaking to them on the matter of protective headgear is perfectly within the last part of that.