Shane Sutton

[Smokin Joe]

Was the female triathlete Chrissie Wellington? (She's been involved in the campaigning over improving women's pro cycling.)

I don't think it was, that is one triathlete whose name I would recognise.

 

[Fab Foodie]

..... mainly I suspect from pot bellied male munters she wouldn't look twice at.

Oi! Stop objectifying me ....

 

[TheJDog]

I've been pretty suspicious of SS since the Wendy Houvenaghel 'debacle' in the Olympic team pursuit. Anyone who could string an obviously capable athlete along like that for 2 years and then shaft her right at the end in favour of the 3 younger team who were attracting all the press attention, not for performance reasons, but just because he could, well, let's just say I think he's pretty nasty. I know lots of people think WH was just full of sour grapes at the time, but the more I hear about Sutton, the more I think she said or did something and he thought he would teach her a lesson.

The statement from British Cycling following on from Nicole Cooke's piece makes me want to rip up my membership card.

 

[Fab Foodie]

There has been a tweet from a paralympic champion about not 'messing' with the 'wobbly mafia'.

Does the "wobbly mafia" have a fall guy?

 

[Crackle]

Sutton's move sideways at the end of the Leinders debacle always made me think there was a suspicion hanging over Sutton anyhow. he survived that to move onto the track team but he perhaps should have gone at that point. Now a lot of things which have been said by riders in the past are taking on a slightly different light with these allegations. Potentially this could reflect quite badly on Cookson and Brailsford too, particularly Cookson and could even weaken his position in the battle for world tour supremacy with ASO. I wait to see how much legs this has.

 

[fatblokish]

One more point - do BC REALLY get £30 million a year? I did a bit of research and digging, it appears that they had received about 60% of that in FOUR YEARS (An Olympic period). Let's please check assertions before involving fingers on keyboards. Makes discussion so more interesting and credible!

According to last year's P&L account, income for 2015 was £26,092,596. It's on the BC website, if you wish to check this assertion.
Fingers off keyboard

 

[ColinJ]

One more point - do BC REALLY get £30 million a year? I did a bit of research and digging, it appears that they had received about 60% of that in FOUR YEARS (An Olympic period). Let's please check assertions before involving fingers on keyboards. Makes discussion so more interesting and credible!

Ok then, in the interests of credibility, I also did a bit of research and digging and found this document!

I'm not sure if that is all of their funding, but it certainly means that your figures are way too low.

 

[CaadX]

BC , UCI, FIFA, IAAF and so on there is no difference give someone power and they will abuse it.

 

[fatblokish]

BC's income from the P&L accounts hasn't fallen below £20 million pa in any of the last five accounting periods.

 

[andrew_s]

They had a very good interview with a female triathlete (Name escapes me as I don't follow triathlon) on R4 this morning who said...

It would have been one of Non Stanford, Helen Jenkins, Vicky Holland or Jodie Stimpson. I'd guess that it would have been Non Stanford as she's had a number of interviews published on the BBC website over the last few days.
British women's triathlon have a bit of an embarrassment of riches at the moment - the first 3 are all good medal prospects for Rio, and Stimpson would be if the others hadn't got the 3 available places.

 

[Tanis8472]

I've been pretty suspicious of SS since the Wendy Houvenaghel 'debacle' in the Olympic team pursuit. Anyone who could string an obviously capable athlete along like that for 2 years and then shaft her right at the end in favour of the 3 younger team who were attracting all the press attention, not for performance reasons, but just because he could, well, let's just say I think he's pretty nasty. I know lots of people think WH was just full of sour grapes at the time, but the more I hear about Sutton, the more I think she said or did something and he thought he would teach her a lesson.

The statement from British Cycling following on from Nicole Cooke's piece makes me want to rip up my membership card.

Do you mean this?
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/19147279

 

[Smokin Joe]

It would have been one of Non Stanford, Helen Jenkins, Vicky Holland or Jodie Stimpson. I'd guess that it would have been Non Stanford as she's had a number of interviews published on the BBC website over the last few days.
British women's triathlon have a bit of an embarrassment of riches at the moment - the first 3 are all good medal prospects for Rio, and Stimpson would be if the others hadn't got the 3 available places.

Helen Jenkins, I seem to remember.

 

[The Bear]

The response to Nicole Cooke's article from British Cycling - now appended - is pathetic. Basically, it just makes things worse. Nicole Cooke may have been the most complete cyclist that Britain has ever produced (since Beryl Burton, of course) but the attitude of the sport's administrators at all levels, nationally and internationally, meant that she never got to compete as widely as she should have, let alone get real recognition for her acheivements. I've heard people in the British Cycling world comment on her sexual appetite, her supposed lack of femininity, her 'difficult' and 'uncooperative' character, all apparently designed to illustrate why her gradual exclusion from the inner circle was her own fault, whereas in fact all of these comments only demonstrate the structural and individual sexism and prejudice of the sport. But as she says in the article, "they don't even know it". That's the thing. The men (and women - because yes, many women absorb and reproduce the same sexist attitudes) who say these things don't even know that they are part of the problem. They really think they are 'explaining' rationally and all the time they are both illustrating and reinforcing the problem they don't even recognise. I really wish someone like Nicole Cooke was the President of the UCI...

Bear says chapeau to Monkey!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

This comment seems to sum up the thread.

With respect, it does not in any way. How many women's voices do you need to hear before you think that this might be something that is a problem perpetrated and perpetuated by British Cycling and not by the women concerned? Sure, when it was just Nicole Cooke, it was easy to blame her. Because everyone know she was bolshy, right? But not we have Jessica Varnish and the XC team, and even Queen Victoria. You may be able to say that posters here lack your inside knowledge, but most of what is going on here is reporting the voices of those women, and they do know and have experienced what they are talking about and in ways that even you, as a man, could not possibly have done.

It is quite clear that not just BC but cycling authorities at all levels are still not taking women's sport seriously enough and are structurally, and in far too many cases also individually, sexist, and that they have allowed (and still are allowing) this situation to continue as long as they can get away with it. It would be nice to see men like you, with a long involvement in the sport, at least acknowledge that this is true before you pick easier targets to shoot down.

 

[mjr]

But only suspended when the allegations of his comments on disabled sportsMEN became public. BC thought they could ride this through - only a few women complaining. IMO, this is a deeper cancer than one man.

All too believable. BC's approach to disabled cyclists seems to be to obstruct their inclusion at any level with such measures as spreading the competition ban on recumbents to sportives and also banning e-bikes from them. Hand cyclists are tolerated but must fly "a vertical, visible flag placed at the back of the hand cycle" - maybe a black triangle would be to their liking? Organisers have to comply with these requirements by BC threatening to refuse to list or insure the sportive. Basically, unless you're a full-on para-cyclist, https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/disability/ seems to have nothing for you.

At club level, women were often shunted into "Breeze" groups (I've not checked if they still exist - I've not heard of them for a while) and other minorities like disabled riders seem simply ignored.

So while it's probably right that Shane Sutton be held to account if he discriminated, I agree it's deeper than one man: there's an institutional problem that should be tackled too. No more letting BC wriggle out of it by setting up new initiatives while almost nothing changes in the existing structures. Reforming even the sporting side would be a big task, so it seems like time for non-sport cycling to be moved to a better home (maybe a new one) and BC's claws be unhooked from the councils like Manchester where they've sunk them in.