Shane Sutton

[Milkfloat]

I believe it to be a mix of sour grapes and truth. The number of headstrong and driven people in the same system is bound to cause conflict. The world of professional sport is an incredibly hard one, hero to zero in the blink of an eye. Ultimately Sutton has been a key part of a very successful system, is that because of his alleged behaviour or in spite of it and if it was because of it, does that make it acceptable? I would prefer to see this handled outside of the media spotlight as I think it can only cause damage to the team. Maybe Jess and others raised concerns at BC and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I believe it to be a mix of sour grapes and truth. The number of headstrong and driven people in the same system is bound to cause conflict. The world of professional sport is an incredibly hard one, hero to zero in the blink of an eye. Ultimately Sutton has been a key part of a very successful system, is that because of his alleged behaviour or in spite of it and if it was because of it, does that make it acceptable? I would prefer to see this handled outside of the media spotlight as I think it can only cause damage to the team. Maybe Jess and others raised concerns at BC and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.

However, while there allegations of a culture of fear reigning at BC, a lot of things will have gone unreported in fear of getting hit by a ''Boat Rockers Out'' procedure.

 

[ColinJ]

Maybe Jess and others raised concerns at BC and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.

That is exactly what JV is saying!

The trouble with an HTFU coach (as Sutton appears to be) is that they only get the best out of people who respond well to HTFU and who don't question orders.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

I believe it to be a mix of sour grapes and truth. The number of headstrong and driven people in the same system is bound to cause conflict. The world of professional sport is an incredibly hard one, hero to zero in the blink of an eye. Ultimately Sutton Armstrong has been a key part of a very successful system, is that because of his alleged behaviour or in spite of it and if it was because of it, does that make it acceptable? I would prefer to see this handled outside of the media spotlight as I think it can only cause damage to the team sport. Maybe Jess LeMond and others raised concerns at BCUCI and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.

I'm sure Pat McQuaid & co were saying exactly the same thing after the years of omertà and bullying people off teams and out of the sport finally cracked and the doping scandal publicly convulsed the topmost echelons of road racing.

 

[saoirse50]

Trial by media, exactly what is required before the Olympics.

Well, if BC had dealt with this properly long ago, then maybe this wouldn't be happening the way it is. If it is to be trial by media and it affects the Olympics, so be it. This is actually not really news. It's been going on for years. BC have swanned along, arrogantly thinking they could ignore it for far too long.

 

[oldroadman]

Well, if BC had dealt with this properly long ago, then maybe this wouldn't be happening the way it is. If it is to be trial by media and it affects the Olympics, so be it. This is actually not really news. It's been going on for years. BC have swanned along, arrogantly thinking they could ignore it for far too long.

This comment seems to sum up the thread. One question from an interested observer - how do any of the posters know this to be the case? Should people now simply zip it up and wait for the outcome of the independent investigation?
One more point - do BC REALLY get £30 million a year? I did a bit of research and digging, it appears that they had received about 60% of that in FOUR YEARS (An Olympic period). Let's please check assertions before involving fingers on keyboards. Makes discussion so more interesting and credible!
Off for a little potter in the cold but sunny day now.....

 

[Dogtrousers]

On the BBC Sport website: British Cycling have announced an "independent review" following the allegations of sexism made by Jess Varnish.

Terms of reference will be important.

Will it address wider cultural problems, or will it obsess endlessly about precisely what Sutton really said about JV's backside.

 

[gavintc]

Shane suspended now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36147120

But only suspended when the allegations of his comments on disabled sportsMEN became public. BC thought they could ride this through - only a few women complaining. IMO, this is a deeper cancer than one man.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Have these accusations been raised previously? Have any of those who allege they were discriminated against used the systems in place within BC to raise their concerns?

I'm not defending any inappropriate behaviour on the part of BC staff - but in all the reports I've read there's been an absence of any account of having used the systems in place to address the concerns, so it seems somewhat 'cart before the horse' to suggest that BC have been ignoring allegations that are only just being put.

What BC needs to ensure is that the allegations that have been put are investigated fairly and transparently - and an independent review of how these are handled sounds like a sensible start - and we have to remember that they have a duty of care not only to their athletes but to their employees as well.

point of order: The athletes are employees too, BC's defence of the JV situation that they're simply not renewing her employment contract.

This could appear to have stemmed from JV's prior very public comments about to poor preparation and 'how many times must I put my life on hold' speech/rant - which BC could not have failed to notice. No doubt it has been reiterated in private whether for ages beforehand or if that was the start we don't know, but if BC simply ignored such a public slating and did not seek clarification in private straight afterwards why she said what she did, then that in itself is grossly neglectful on their part and speaks rather loudly of their backroom priorities.

Nicole Cooke's book has been out for a while, even the sainted Cav has expressed his dislike of the Sutton approach in that fly on the wall film and his books, Sutton does't use the rectal sunshine blower apparently

To suggest this is all a bolt out of the blue that blindsided BC just the other day seems a tad wide of the mark.

Also if the systems in place are set up to favour one gang over the rest or simply aren't fit for purpose nor trusted to be by the still employed (and vested interest in keeping it that way athletes though) as reading between the lines seems to be the case, how can people hope to see them privately applied & used fairly and effectively with no life altering comeback on themselves? lets see what the independent enquiry has to say. Apropos of nothing: I wonder if theres any shredding and email housekeeping is going on in North Manchester right now.

Personally in my policy and procedure heavy piece of the public service that says all the right things, I see daily the frustrations and fears of reprisals of staff, if people put their head over the parapet and speak out against the things that aren't being done right or bulldozed through by the back door. People get ground down by it after a while and become acquiescent to being trampled over, especially if every now and again a troublesome one is left swinging on a gibbet or gets tossed overboard.
To avoid the inevitable thread drift into an SC&P type industrial relations tit-for-tat: Yes I am putting my money where my mouth is in my work context and its making me no friends with the upper echelons.

 

[CaadX]

BC have bullied cycling for years and got away with it, it should be BC in the dock on a whole set of different charges !

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I didn't spot this part of the BC quote (taken from the Telegraph)

“Following the announcement of an independent review into British Cycling’s performance programmes,” it said in a statement, “we are also announcing technical director Shane Sutton has been suspended pending an internal investigation into the allegations of discrimination that have been reported in the press. We are fully committed to the principles and active promotion of equality of opportunity .”
​

So there are 2 things going on, an independent review of the overall programme and an internal investigation into SS. It's possible, therefore, that the programme could get criticised with reforms recommended, etc, while SS gets cleared and reinstated (lack of evidence, etc.)

 

[Smokin Joe]

Not only did BC not want any women to race at their home World Championships, they were prepared to break UCI rules to prevent that from happening. They were prepared to fund all aspects of my trip to Scotland to race the relay, but not prepared to let me stay around to race. Why on earth would that be their stance? To this day I can only conclude that it was as simple as me being a self-produced rider, who spoke her mind and challenged their decisions. I had, on various occasions, been seen to “show up” their funded riders by beating them when riding for GB, and the British Championships each year had become my proving ground where, time and again, I fended off a funded rider to take the crown. I guess they didn’t want to be shown up anymore. This aspect is pertinent now with Jess Varnish who is out to prove them wrong. BC will do anything they can to prevent her being able to do this.
Jenny Copnall. Blimey!

That's mirrors what Nicole Cooke claimed in her autobiography. They had a very good interview with a female triathlete (Name escapes me as I don't follow triathlon) on R4 this morning who said that as a very young sport without any historical baggage female competitors compete in exactly the same conditions as the men - same race distances, same prize money. It seems ludicrous, for example, that the women's pursuit is over a distance of 3000m compared to 4000 for the men. Surely they don't think women are not capable of riding an extra kilometre?

 

[fimm]

Was the female triathlete Chrissie Wellington? (She's been involved in the campaigning over improving women's pro cycling.)

 

[shouldbeinbed]

@Smokin Joe Tennis gets away with the same type of discrimination in some tournaments, e.g. Wimbledon, Women play less sets and historically have received less money for competing.

They certainly seem to be further along the road in terms of pay equality, if not putting on the same length of games.

The ladies BDO world darts championship is a poor relation sprint compared to the mens marathon too.

 

[fossyant]

There has been a tweet from a paralympic champion about not 'messing' with the 'wobbly mafia'.