Shake diets

[Ghost Donkey]

See post 79.

Read it ;-) I agree that very low carb diets are unhealthy and usually advocate moderate carbs. Moderation is of course unique to each individuals circumstances. I'm certain I can find a well qualified person to back up most eating approaches with research data. The current health advice given out by the NHS is contradictory in many places and confusing. Media reporting is all over the place and as most of the studies reported on are observstional studies (double blind trials are impossible with foodstuff) they are not accurate which is why so many contradictory frsults are foubd. I've seen many studies for and against ketosis. There's also study results for and against eating meat.

Done it again. What was the original question?

 

[Becs]

Read it ;-) I agree that very low carb diets are unhealthy and usually advocate moderate carbs. Moderation is of course unique to each individuals circumstances. I'm certain I can find a well qualified person to back up most eating approaches with research data. The current health advice given out by the NHS is contradictory in many places and confusing. Media reporting is all over the place and as most of the studies reported on are observstional studies (double blind trials are impossible with foodstuff) they are not accurate which is why so many contradictory frsults are foubd. I've seen many studies for and against ketosis. There's also study results for and against eating meat.

Done it again. What was the original question?

I agree. Personally I think the media (particularly the daily mail!) should be prevented from reporting on health issues without peer review - similar to the good quality scientific journals, to prevent to much spin/dishonesty. My point was not to say "if you go on a shake diet you'll get ketoacidotic and die", it was to point out that in my opinion prolonged ketosis is not a healthy state to be in, despite the amount that it seems to be aspired to on this, and other forums. My experience of treating ketotic patients is limited to the four legged variety, but us mammals are all rather similar overall.

 

[Ghost Donkey]

I agree. Personally I think the media (particularly the daily mail!) should be prevented from reporting on health issues without peer review - similar to the good quality scientific journals, to prevent to much spin/dishonesty. My point was not to say "if you go on a shake diet you'll get ketoacidotic and die", it was to point out that in my opinion prolonged ketosis is not a healthy state to be in, despite the amount that it seems to be aspired to on this, and other forums. My experience of treating ketotic patients is limited to the four legged variety, but us mammals are all rather similar overall.

In fairness to the mail they tend to report on every health study which is picked up in the mainstream media. At least regular readers will see a large range of health studies and their contradictory findings rather than a one sided approach.

The problem with peer reviewed studies is the different forces at work in nutritional studies. I start to sound liker a militant lefty when I talk about big business influence and political dabbling so I'll stop there. I'm a big fan of the articles Gary Taubes has written on the subject of nutritional studies. While I don't necessarily agree with his opinions on health and nutrition the work he has done regarding observational studies is well written and easily understandable by the layperson (me, basically).

 

[The Jogger]

They are different, ketoacidosis being a more severe form of ketosis. Ketones are acids, if you have enough of them you get acidosis. The side effects experienced are the early warning signs. Obviously everything has a risk benefit analysis so the risk of ketosis is probably considered lower than the risk of morbid obesity, hence it is licensed. However in the merely overweight person the risk benefit analysis will be different and you're probably better off eating a calorie restricted but balanced diet and doing some exercise! The risk benefit analysis is the reason why you have to have a gp referral.

Ketoacidosis has nothing to do with a diet like the Atkins (low carb) it is more likely to hit someone (if at all) such as uncontrolled type 1 diabetics, alcoholics and people who have been on prolonged fasts, might see an increase in ketones beyond the normal range. If you are on a low carb diet you are not going to go into a state of ketoacidosis..........

 

[Riverman]

Ok so almost a year later, I'm still just under 12 stone but have been stupidly boozing since mid April due to a large supply of alcohol I got from Spain...

I've definitely put weight on because of all that boozing but I'm surprised that I haven't put more on. Probably put on about half a stone.

As for the shake drinks, I still drink the shakes but only one a day now and normally have them for breakfast. My diet has definitely improved over all (bar the alcohol), I eat loads of fruit and veg. A favourite is to eat a whole cucumber with reduced fat mayonaise. Love tomoatoes, eat those like canday as I do with mushrooms.

I think the key to the shake diets is to just stick to them! I think a lot of people start the diets, get to the third day, give up then revert back to their old habits. Then they're surprised to suddenly put weight as the body goes into starving mode. Whereas if you keep going, your body just kinda gets used to it. You can avoid this effect though by having five small meals a day instead of just three.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I've definitely put weight on because of all that boozing but I'm surprised that I haven't put more on. Probably put on about half a stone.

I'm really sorry but I just actually lol'd IRL.

I think the key to the shake diets is to just stick to them! I think a lot of people start the diets, get to the third day, give up then revert back to their old habits. Then they're surprised to suddenly put weight as the body goes into starving mode. Whereas if you keep going, your body just kinda gets used to it. You can avoid this effect though by having five small meals a day instead of just three.

The key to shake diets is not to start them.

5 meals a day only really cures 3 issues: inability to consume lots in one sitting - Satiety over time (ierotein and low GI carbs) - Timing of recovery meals (bodybuilders for example)

"Starvation mode" I really wish people would stop using this term. It makes a natural response during times of famine sound like turning a TV off with the remote. Not the case and not that simple.

 

[Riverman]

I'm really sorry but I just actually lol'd IRL.

Well it was about two/three months of almost daily boozing so I´m not surprised I put weight on at all. Just glad I'm not drinking anymore.

Another problem is sometimes hangovers make me eat more as I get terrible nausea and eating tends to quell it. I've tried using anti-emetics but never found one which works well enough. That said, the best medicine is not to drink so much.

The key to shake diets is not to start them.

I started the shake diet around September last year, I was over 14 stone. Today I am around 11 stone 10 pounds and have been more or less under 12 stone since February. I have maintained adequete nutrition throughout, have eaten more fruit and vegetables than I ever have before in my life.

Clearly on that basis the shake diet worked. If the aim is to lose weight then it worked. I've tried to elucidate to you how this diet has affected me but I gather you don't believe pretty a word I've said about it. So it's probably best we just leave the conversation here.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

You would have put weight on anyway. That's what happens

 

[Riverman]

You would have put weight on anyway. That's what happens

If you've noticed though, I've lost weight a lot faster than I've put it back on and it's not normal for me to drink such huge amounts.

Those two/three months also included two weeks in Spain and Portugal where I only had a rough idea of the calorific content of what I was eating. Too many full fat lattes too, something I would never drink over here but when they're about 60p each it's hard to resist.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

If you've noticed though, I've lost weight a lot faster than I've put it back on and it's not normal for me to drink such huge amounts.

Those two/three months also included two weeks in Spain and Portugal where I only had a rough idea of the calorific content of what I was eating. Too many full fat lattes too, something I would never drink over here but when they're about 60p each it's hard to resist.

Ditch the morning shake - eat properly and watch.

 

[potsy]

I've definitely put weight on because of all that boozing but I'm surprised that I haven't put more on. Probably put on about half a stone.

I can put that on in a week

 

[Ghost Donkey]

Ditch the morning shake - eat properly and watch.

Indeed. Porridge with full fat gold top (jersey moo cow) milk is my breakfast of choice. Weight staying off. Not keen on the taste of full fat milk but tis the least fattening milk (in my opinion. My opinion might not be shared by other forum users ) so milled flaxseed sprinkled on top to make it a bit more wheatabix tasting with all the benefits of flaxseed but not the quick digestion/feeling hungry of wheatabix. Feel full until lunchtime. It's worth noting that the vitamins in shakes are usually poor quality also. A side salad with your meal or as a large part of your meal lots of stuff like kale, spinach, tomatoes and any kinds of veggies you might like help with your vitamins better.A bit of cold pressed olive oil with it suits me. Not had a day off work sick since having the daily salads. Fruit is good too for vitamins too. Fruit juice and dried fruit to a lesser extent has lots of sugar with none of the fibre. Great after a training session, not so great the rest of the time.

 

[youngoldbloke]

"Not keen on the taste of full fat milk but tis the least fattening milk"
How does that work then? The milk with the highest fat content, most calories, being the least fattening?

 

[Ghost Donkey]

"Not keen on the taste of full fat milk but tis the least fattening milk"
How does that work then? The milk with the highest fat content, most calories, being the least fattening?

It's a good question but there's a serious risk of hijacking the thread here so I'll keep it short. I realise that is my own fault for writing such a contentious statement in the first place so first of all apologies for that. Full fat milk is lower glycemic load, more satiating (not as hungry as soon after) and fat in the diet isn't directly related to body fat. Not all calories are equal. Not all fats are equal either. I'd always recommend reading up on endocrinology and how hormones work in the body for a good explanation. My much improved health, sporting performance (I'm still crap mind ) lower weight and having abs are testament to being onto something. The hormone stuff is really the bees knees. I know many people who believe the same and also improve. If it was as simple as all calories equal, fat makes you fat (you didn't say that of course) and eat less, exercise more the problem would have been solved years ago.

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Just out of interest, do those commuters on the shake diets find that the diet/suggested snacks are good enough for recovery?

I only ask because I think this is where I would fall down in regard to any diet. At the moment, and I'm not planning a diet, I'm doing around 250-300 training miles a week and I'm finding that the recovery is of the utmost importance (as it should be). On a Monday, after my longest ride of the week on a Sunday however, I do tend to go to town and whilst I've never been one to change what I eat, I find the amount is sometimes staggering. I probably do eat too many carbs, too much red meat, snack on too much fruit in the evenings etc but I find that all these things keep me strong and the balance for me is therein. Not having a nutritionist on board Team Remington, I probably do eat too much but as ColinJ, I think, said earlier in the thread I'd personally prefer to still eat the things I always did and curtail alcohol to around 6-7 pints a week. So, most diets wouldn't be for me and yet fair play to those of you for whom it has worked.

(For those who are interested I have a cousin who is a strength and conditioning coach and recommended a recovery formula using rice milk, spirulina powder and whey protein and this has seemed to fill that all-important gap in, well, me being a complete piggy. I also favour oat milk with cereal opposed cow's milk).