Sell me on cats

[fossyant]

Here we go, cat haters arrive.

Dog's poo everywhere and their owners don't always clean up, also cat's don't attack people - I was attacked twice last year by dogs.

 

[fossyant]

Our cats are very good with flies ! Chomp.

 

[Psamathe]

I live in the country and I got my latest cat specifically to control the mouse population. She's doing a great job. She also buries her poop.

Out of control populations is what happens when something damages the natural steady state of an ecosystem (eg remove a significant portion of a population). Apart from seeds and grains, those mice the cats are wiping out will also be predating on insects keeping those populations under "control". Remove the mice and you remove an element of the control on the species they were predating so you can end-up with another "out of control" population.

And the steady state that was fine is now bouncing around causing problems.

Ian

 

[T4tomo]

Out of control populations is what happens when something damages the natural steady state of an ecosystem (eg remove a significant portion of a population). Apart from seeds and grains, those mice the cats are wiping out will also be predating on insects keeping those populations under "control". Remove the mice and you remove an element of the control on the species they were predating so you can end-up with another "out of control" population.

And the steady state that was fine is now bouncing around causing problems.

Ian

Except that cats have like always been around, so are part of the ecosytsem already. yes some will kill birds and small mammals occasionally, but this is usually the weak of the species that would have died anyway. Your "facts" are urban myths.

 

[Gwylan]

I've never had a cat. What am I missing?

Nothing.
Nothing is very hard to define. The absence of things defines nothing better.

The absence of an odd smell you don't like and cannot quite name or locate.
The absence of a need to deploy disgusting air fresheners. See above
The absence of scratch marks appearing on your furniture
The absence of the need to negotiate which chair you may be allowed to occupy.
The absence of the trip hazard of unfinished food, dishes of water, milk, cat beer, toys, litter tray and the other detritus that associating with a cat brings.
The absence of "fur bunnies"
The absence of friends who are allergic to cats, but don't say that's why they don't visit you.
The absence of responsibility to secure the services of a cat sitter.
The absence of turds in your garden.
The absence of birds and wildlife in your and neighbouring gardens.
The absence of mid night choir practices and screaming, snarling fights
The absence of being expected to respond to every whim and petty demand
The absence of being expected to open and close doors at odd hours. Simply as a demonstration of the power they hold over you
The absence of outrageous bills from vets.
The absence of delusional feelings of being loved and not recognising it as exploitation.

I shall now go into a witness protection programme and seek a new CC identity.

 

[Psamathe]

Except that cats have like always been around, so are part of the ecosytsem already. yes some will kill birds and small mammals occasionally, but this is usually the weak of the species that would have died anyway. Your "facts" are urban myths.

Not at the density they often achieve when kept as pets and wild cats are then population controlled as part of the ecosystem eg by disease, survival of young (subject to predation, disease, etc.). When we keep them as pets the density increases without the controls as they are fed at home, vaccinated, disease protective measures, vetinary treatment ...

In my tiny rural village cats (recent additions) have destroyed the local wildlife population. Virtually all gone. No birds (except pigeons & rooks), no longer any snakes, small rodents, barn owls, etc. disappeared. They were not all "the weak of the species".

It is rare to see one on neighbours cats without a small bird or rodent hanging out of its mouth.

Ian

 

[T4tomo]

Think we need to lighten the mood!

Yorkshireman walks into the vets and says “summat’s up w’it cat”
Vet replies “Is it a Tom?
Yorkshireman replies “Nah, it’s ‘ere, int' basket”

 

[Drago]

Not at the density they often achieve when kept as pets and wild cats are then population controlled as part of the ecosystem eg by disease, survival of young (subject to predation, disease, etc.). When we keep them as pets the density increases without the controls as they are fed at home, vaccinated, disease protective measures, vetinary treatment ...

In my tiny rural village cats (recent additions) have destroyed the local wildlife population. Virtually all gone. No birds (except pigeons & rooks), no longer any snakes, small rodents, barn owls, etc. disappeared. They were not all "the weak of the species".

It is rare to see one on neighbours cats without a small bird or rodent hanging out of its mouth.

Ian

There are nowhere near enough cats to significantly impact such populations.

The decline of insects and the consequential effects along the following trophic levels has a far greater effect.

 

[Psamathe]

There are nowhere near enough cats to significantly impact such populations.

The decline of insects and the consequential effects along the following trophic levels has a far greater effect.

From personal experience, it doesn't take many cats to devastate local wildlife.

Ian

 

[slow horse]

I shall now go into a witness protection programme and seek a new CC identity.

Will they let you bring your cat?

 

[T4tomo]

It sounds bad, but not everyone is convinced that cats are actually putting bird populations under pressure. “The kneejerk reaction is that they must be having some sort of impact – they’re killing millions and millions,” says Baker. However, numbers can be deceptive. According to Baker, the birds most hunted by cats have so many young that they can afford to lose a lot of them. In the UK, he says: “I just categorically say there is no evidence of an impact.”

The UK’s largest bird charity, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB), is not particularly concerned about the impact of cats on the British mainland. Instead it focuses on what it says is driving UK bird declines: global warming, intensive agriculture and expanding towns and cities leading to habitat and food loss. “While we know that cats do kill large numbers of birds in UK gardens, there’s no evidence this is affecting decline in the same way that these other issues are,” said a spokesperson.

A big reason why they are less worried is the evidence that cats primarily take “the doomed surplus”: weak or injured birds likely to die anyway. In 2008, Baker led a study in Bristol showing that birds killed by cats on average had less fat and muscle than birds killed by collisions with windows. While there could be other explanations – such as birds having less fat in the morning when cats tend to pounce – Baker says that the fat and muscle scores were so low that the birds were “in dire trouble before they got killed”. Another study from 2000 found that cat-killed birds in Denmark had smaller spleens, indicative of a weaker immune system.

Cats Protection recommends a dusk-till-dawn cat curfew, along with SongBird Survival and the RSPB which hopes it will be a “win-win”. Cats and birds are most active at dusk and dawn. “It’s a sensible compromise,” says Cummings. “You’re effectively reducing the risk of [the cats] getting in a road traffic collision overnight, and also reducing the risk of predation.” There is some evidence that cats do get hit by cars at night slightly more often than during the day.

To further reduce hunting, people can make their gardens bird-friendly and have their cats wear a colourful bib (the evidence on bells is less clear). McDonald’s research also found that feeding cats a diet with meat-derived protein reduces the amount of prey they bring home, as does playing with them for at least 10 minutes a day. “That’s the sort of thing that anybody can do,” he says. “And it’s really enriching the life of the cat as well.”

 

[Time Waster]

Here we go, cat haters arrive.

Dog's poo everywhere and their owners don't always clean up, also cat's don't attack people - I was attacked twice last year by dogs.

Cat owners never pick up after their cats so at least us dog owners are up on that with the majority of dog owners who do pick up after their dogs.

Not a cat hater just not a great cat lover. I see them as animals with positives and negatives just like any other pet potential. I have looked after cats, stroked cats, volunteered to socialise cats at a rescue centre and had some sit in my lap purring. I have had the equivalent contact with dogs prior to getting our dog. I just feel that as a pet you are better off with a dog if you want quality interaction. Having seen the way a cat behaves on catnip/cat mint though I have to say cats still have some benefits (albeit in this case a neighbours cat in my parents garden high as they can get, so funny).

As with any pet it pays to do your research and only get one once you know it is right for you. IMHO if the OP has to ask this question then either he/she needs to do some research elsewhere or a cat is really not a good pet for them. I do not think you can get a good answer on whether a cat or a dog is good for you from cat or dog owners respectively. There is most certainly a heavy bias going on.

 

[Tail End Charlie]

Virtually all gone. No birds (except pigeons & rooks), no longer any snakes, small rodents, barn owls, etc. disappeared. They were not all "the weak of the species".

It is rare to see one on neighbours cats without a small bird or rodent hanging out of its mouth.

Ian

So which is it? Has all the wildlife gone, or every time you see a cat it has caught something? Surely both can't be true.

 

[Time Waster]

Can I just point out that dogs are also capable of exploiting their owner and there is a similar training thing going on where they train their owner to suit their needs as the dog sees it (namely more food). If exploitation is your thing then a dog can do it too just not without you realising it is happening!! Cats are just a lot better at manipulation IME. All it takes is the odd rubbing of head on your leg or a purr or two and you are under their spell! That is all ok just it is often not easy to realise what has just happened. A dog is less subtle at it, and certainly noisier doing it.

 

[Alex321]

Not at the density they often achieve when kept as pets and wild cats are then population controlled as part of the ecosystem eg by disease, survival of young (subject to predation, disease, etc.). When we keep them as pets the density increases without the controls as they are fed at home, vaccinated, disease protective measures, vetinary treatment ...

In rural areas, the density is low, unless one household keeps dozens of them.

In my tiny rural village cats (recent additions) have destroyed the local wildlife population. Virtually all gone. No birds (except pigeons & rooks), no longer any snakes, small rodents, barn owls, etc. disappeared. They were not all "the weak of the species".

IMO, there is no such thing as a "rural village". If it is a village, then it isn't rural.

It is rare to see one on neighbours cats without a small bird or rodent hanging out of its mouth.

That is surprising.

We now live in a fairly small village, with fields behind us, and fields no more than about 300 yards away in any direction, with a reasonable number of cats around, but I rarely see one carrying anything.