Road World Championship 2010

[Skip Madness]

Yes but Pooley has been by far our strongest rider all year - probably the best female rider in the world, and I can't help thinking that if she'd been left to do her thing on that last hill things might have been different, but it looks as if Cooke was chosen as leader for some reason. Team GB should've had a medal today - no doubt about it.

I really don't think Pooley could have got enough on the climb to hold off the big threats, and there was the real danger if she had tried to power away that she would blow Cooke and Armitstead out the back completely. It didn't work out for Britain, but I don't think there was much more they could have done.

 

[raindog]

I suppose you're right Skip. I'm still disappointed though.

These hills aren't turning out to be as bad as we all thought are they? I reckon it'll come down to a massed sprint after all tomorrow. Going to be a good race I think.

 

[yello]

I figured your disappointment was the reason for the emoticon raindog. Shows your passionate about your sport, I like that. Casual observers like myself blow in and out with the wind.

Do people think tomorrow will pan out like that last 2 days, i.e. a bunch sprint? Though, actually, just watching today's last km it wasn't really that. Cooke and Arndt nearly held off the chasers, and then that chase group was only 3. The rest of the bunch was some 5m back. I suspect the big teams will have the upper hand here and it could be a high paced war of attrition. I reckon Cavendish will be doing incredibly well to stay up there to contest. But, frankly, I have no idea I just hope it's going to be a good one.

 

[resal]

Fantastic race. I'm just recovering.


I'm with you skip. I think GB rode superbly well to their strengths. I think Emma knew she could not win in a finish with anyone else. If she had gone on her own, everyone else would have chased and so she had no winning chance and that was always the case on this course, even before she won the TT. After the TT result, she was never ever going to win. The big move to get a group away with Emma and Lizzie with 3 to go was sparked by Sharon. It was a good idea, well executed but did not work. Come the last time up, when it got real hard, Lizzie was not competitive enough to get into a realistic shout of getting onto the podium. Winning sprints in stage races just prior to the World Champs, riding for the dominant trade team is entirely different from being in the final shake up at this level. I actually thought it was game over for GB with 1 lap to go. However, I was writing off Cooke.

That was superb by Cooke. The lone break was to be there on the final hill as anything happened. It did, she was. Emma then rode shotgun as best she could. Lizzie got back up. Cooke and Arndt was a lot closer call than Porter was calling. This was a long uphill finish - exactly the type Arndt has won out of small groups. Arndt and Cooke were closer matched and both knew that giving too much would give the other the title. That is the way it fell. But even so they had done enough until.......

Team Canada decided to get their lead sprinter in Gold medal position. Canada buried themselves. They did it entirely for nothing. There is no accounting for idiots. They were riding for nobody.
They put the chasing group back in the hunt but it still needed a major commitment from somebody else.
In 2007 Vos beat Bronzini in the sprint for Silver, after Vos had done a modest amount of work, but Beltman had done the majority. Vos obviously made the same call today.

It was a fabulous race and the margins were slim. Arndt was 5th with not a bike length between her and Cooke. Cooke could not have gone much earlier. Vos could not have gone any later, she only just got past Cooke. Vos was gifted her chance by idiot riding by the Canadians. Bronzini was gifted the World title by Vos having to go when she did. It was a single tactic that was wholly reliant on several others doing things that played out exactly for her to put the final card on the table. It wasn't a game of poker because Bronzini had no other game to play, unlike Arndt, Cooke and Vos.

 

[yello]

Welcome resal, I've not read your posts before. That reads like an analysis of the type I like to read and I can learn from. Thanks

It shows me the complexities of bike racing; the tactics, strengths, card playing... and the luck... and how all of them come together in random ways and amounts.

 

[Skip Madness]

Personally I enjoyed the Canadian's desperate attempt to drag it back. They didn't have anyone likely to win, but they knew doing something meant more of a chance than doing nothing.

The Dutch really squandered it by putting the whole team behind Vos/Wild. Had Loes Gunnewijk, Chantal Blaak, Regina Bruins, Adrie Visser, Noortje Tabak or Annemiek Van Vleuten (wait, that's the entire team except for Vos and Wild) got into a break, they'd have had (a) a genuine chance with riders who can win from a breakaway (who would want to take any of that lot to the line) and (b) an excuse to let other teams worry about the work and take the pressure off themselves. As it was, the other squads were happy to let them do as much as they could get away with. Chantal Blaak was absolutely, monstrously immense in that role, but she needn't have had to be.

That's where the Italians are consistently better - riders for all eventualities making sure they're all as useful as possible.

 

[chevin]

Fantastic race. I'm just recovering.

Agreed!

But even so they had done enough until.......
Team Canada decided to get their lead sprinter in Gold medal position. Canada buried themselves. They did it entirely for nothing.

and again.

Arndt and Cooke were closer matched and both knew that giving too much would give the other the title.

Exactly - but by doing what they did, they both lost it. Obviously can't tell what was going on internally (physically, mentally) with Cooke, but it looked like she initially missed Arndt's jump (who had previously just taken her foot off the gas momentarily, but that's just enough with only 10-13 seconds to play with), and then when she got back on, she left it marginally too late to go past. Again, only a fraction, but that's enough. Whether she'd have still won is obviously uncertain, but much more likely that she'd have at least been amongst the medals. Being hyperpicky perhaps, but that's what the margins are at this level. And maybe it was all or nothing anyway. Not trying to be critical of Cooke who rode with real guts, just trying to review. Hindsight's a wonderful thing!

It wasn't a game of poker because Bronzini had no other game to play, unlike Arndt, Cooke and Vos.

But she played what cards she had to perfection.

 

[resal]

The Dutch were also doing everything absolutely right. Wild wasn't supported, she just wasn't ever going to get to the finish with anyone who was riding for the gold medal. She was in the team just in case something crazy went on and it was a bunch sprint. She had nothing to contribute to the collective, so she did nothing. Getting herself round was her job. The Dutch rightly supported Vos and knew that the race would be allowed to go away from them by every other nation because they had the strongest team. when the gap to the American went up, every one else could play poker with the Dutch. They started to reel it in when they were close enough to the finish to preserve Vos and Van Vlueten for the finale. Then they could do a 1 - 2 on any other pairing. The only other team that could have been expected to contribute was GB, but GB was rightly seen as a 1 trick pony - Emma attempting to drive to the finish on the final lap. That was going to be unlikely so GB would not be expected to write down their chances by contributing to the modest chase needed.

Vlueten's puncture just before the penultimate hill was a game changer. As soon as that happened Vos' chances of a win became very slim. If Vos was in a break in which there were 2 riders from a single nation, it would be nearly impossible to win. With a rider up the road, everyone else who would be beaten by Vos in a normal sprint would then force Vos to do the lion's share of the chasing. Vos somehow needed to get in an elite break with only single riders from nations and yet other riders would want to hang back until their 2nd rider rejoined.

That change of requirement was going to be difficult to effect with only 2/3rds of a lap left.

 

[Keith Oates]

I've only read the Cyclingnews report so can't give much in the way of a comment except to say a thankyou to the previous posters, it's good to have knowledgeable members of the forum giving their comments. As for Nicole, I'm happy to see that she is still a major force, even after a quiet year, I only hope she can get into a good team next year and get for herself and the fans some good results!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[resal]

Agreed!


But she played what cards she had to perfection.

No. that is wrong. Bronzini had only one card and could only play it once and that card could only be played at one point in the race. That is not smart, it is just facts and the outcome is related to other events totally out of control of Bronzini.

The difference in pressures during the race on selecting option choices open to Vos & Van Vleuten, Arndt & Worrack, Cantele & Guderzo, Stevens & Neben, Pooley & Cooke and a last 200m sprinter, is enormous.

 

[HLaB]

I've only read the Cyclingnews report so can't give much in the way of a comment except to say a thankyou to the previous posters, it's good to have knowledgeable members of the forum giving their comments. As for Nicole, I'm happy to see that she is still a major force, even after a quiet year, I only hope she can get into a good team next year and get for herself and the fans some good results!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you get BBC where you are ? their video may be blocked though (I think there's an IT work around but I'm unsure how its done); You'll probably get something here but it'll be in Flemish

 

[Skip Madness]

Vlueten's puncture just before the penultimate hill was a game changer.

It was certainly ill-timed and bad luck, but I wouldn't call it a game changer. Vos still had at least Gunnewijk, Tabak and Bruins with her making the Dutch team probably still the strongest of any. Gunnewijk would have fancied her chances against Cooke and Arndt (say), Bruins would have been good for solo attacks. They had cards which they didn't play, and they had them all day.

 

[Skip Madness]

No. that is wrong. Bronzini had only one card and could only play it once and that card could only be played at one point in the race. That is not smart, it is just facts and the outcome is related to other events totally out of control of Bronzini.

Bronzini only had one card, but her team had many. Carretta tried, then Berlato tried, then Guderzo tried, then Cantele tried, and then when they had one lap left and Bronzini was still there they didn't attack so that she could stay in contention.

 

[raindog]

ha - someone on another forum agrees with me that Pooley should have been allowed to do her thing, and David Harmon thought Emma should have gone on the penultimate lap when she had a chance, but it looks as if GB team tactics were centered around Cooke today. Never forget that Pooley won the GP de Plouay a few weeks ago which is a similar circuit with a very stiff climb near the end. I'm still not convinced she wouldn't have won today.
Still, no point in moaning about it, what's bloody done is done.

 

[resal]

It was certainly ill-timed and bad luck, but I wouldn't call it a game changer. Vos still had at least Gunnewijk, Tabak and Bruins with her making the Dutch team probably still the strongest of any. Gunnewijk would have fancied her chances against Cooke and Arndt (say), Bruins would have been good for solo attacks. They had cards which they didn't play, and they had them all day.

Skip, events showed, regardless of what Gunnewijk may or may not have thought about her chances with Cooke or Arndt or Bruins enjoying doing solo attacks, they just were not in a position to do them. Arndt and Cooke were somewhere up the road. The Dutch burnt up Blak but not the others. The talk of Lizzie being in with a chance of the sprint was again, just that - talk. Van Vleuten has shown many times this year, she is the foil to Vos and together they are far stronger than the sum of their parts.