Hacienda71
Mancunian in self imposed exile in leafy Cheshire
- Location
- Wilmslow, Cheshire
What I need to be more anal than that. Definitely can't be arsed. I'll stick to just riding my bike.
Road Racing & Aero Wheels
- Thread starter September
- Start date
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Its the way around. He is actually telling you not to waste money buying more expensive wheels. I have yet to see a scientific rebuttal to what what was posted.
jdtate101
Ex-Fatman
- Location
- Boring Birmingham
When looking at race wheels I decided on a compromise too. 40mm full carbon's instead of 50mm+. I know that's not a huge difference but they're lighter than your avg deep sections (1545g) and less prone to side wind, yet give some aero benefit. The main reason why I went for them (Mavic Cosmic Carbone 40C) was the £1 for 2yr crash replacement policy (Mavic's MP3), so i'm protected if I bin them. I also went for them so I can use them on Alpine trips without worrying about brake track heat too much. Yes they are expensive, but that £1 peace of mind was well worth it IMHO. That £1 deal was a special offer at the time of purchase...it's now around £140 for 2 yrs cover.
oldroadman
Veteran
- Location
- Ubique
First point, are the wheels you have been persuaded you "need" by marketeers actually UCI/BC legal. Check the rules by the book or online. Some deep sections are not allowed. Second, the benefit is often in the mind. How much difference will it make when in a peloton? Learn to get in correct positions and shelter properly and about 30% energy is saved, far more than any wheel can achieve. Third, crosswinds, see second, in a good position in an echelon aero helps a bit but also may compromise control. Fourth, you don't say what standard you are at, at the top end pros use aero kit to get the last squeeze of performance from an already high wattage. Watching the races in UK, I see plenty of people going out of the back with very nice kit that is expensive, when they could have gone out of the back with much less expensive stuff. A good coach and training plan will produce far more than fancy wheels. Once at the absolute top of ability, then use every other legal advantage, until then save your money!
What happens in a team is that the equipment is issued, and you just get on with it, as it tends to be good anyway. Only for TTs does the really fancy stuff get used, and then only for a selected few who have a chance of a high level performance.
Summary: Training, coach, race lots, improve, then consider whether expensive wheels will make much difference, once the level of "marginal gains" has been reached.
Then again, if you just fancy posh kit and can afford it, enjoy - but it won't make that much difference!
What happens in a team is that the equipment is issued, and you just get on with it, as it tends to be good anyway. Only for TTs does the really fancy stuff get used, and then only for a selected few who have a chance of a high level performance.
Summary: Training, coach, race lots, improve, then consider whether expensive wheels will make much difference, once the level of "marginal gains" has been reached.
Then again, if you just fancy posh kit and can afford it, enjoy - but it won't make that much difference!
jack smith
Veteran
- Location
- Durham
Just go with 100mm front and rear lol! Or double discs if its allowed.. Bugger the science!
oldroadman
Veteran
- Location
- Ubique
Check the regulations first. I'm pretty sure extra deep (100mm) is not allowed in road racing, and discs certainly not. If you really want cross wind carnage, of course....
Citius
Guest
BC rules are minimum 16 spokes - so no solid disks outside of certain track events. I don't think there is a BC guideline on rim depth. Riders regularly turn up to races with Zipp 808, PX 101 or similar, although I personally wouldn't want to be riding next to someone with those, on a windy day.
jack smith
Veteran
- Location
- Durham
Wow I was joking!
Pumpkin the robot
Guru
If (and it is a big if) a heavier rim slows you on acceleration, surley the added weight would mean you do not lose speed once you had accelerated as it is acting as a heavier flywheel? So what you give with one hand you take with the other?
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Exactly, The energy required to accelerate the heavier wheel up to speed is not wasted, but stored in the wheel for later use. A bit like the tyre I carry around my waste...for later use.
Citius
Guest
The energy used to accelerate the heavier wheel is returned in the form of slower deceleration - the opposite is true for a lighter wheel - so the net result is about the same. The differences are still relatively minor though.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
The equation in my argument puts "relatively minor" in perspective. I once surreptitiously filled a friend's tyres with water and after several rides I let the cat out the bag. He never noticed the 3kgs of extra weight in his wheels, yet he was convinced his one set of wheels were more "responsive" than the other.
Spoked Wheels
Legendary Member
- Location
- Bournemouth
Maybe not on the flat but you would notice 3kg climbing. I lost 3kg in body weight and fell the benefit when climbing. I couldn't notice much difference on the flat though, perhaps I could have gone faster. There is a hill that is steep and hard (for me at least
) not very long but before I lost the 3kg I would run out gears and struggle the last 25 or 30 metres. Since then I've lost more weight and I even have gears to spare but I'm not saying how many 
Whilst the logic is understandable - If you are purposely decelerating whilst racing, the weight of your wheels is the least of your concerns
Conservation of momentum - theoretically take a 7kg bike, one has 1kg wheels and a 6kg frame etc, the other has 2kg wheels and a 5kg frame etc. Test these in lab conditions, by putting in X amount of power for X amount of time and measuring the speed and distance traveled, and the lighter wheels will accelerate quicker than the heavier wheels, but will decelerate quicker than the heavier wheels. The result - no loss of energy overall, the speed and distance covered for both wheels should be identical.
In reality, the deceleration component of the equation is pretty much removed, due to the factor of braking round corners etc. If we think about the process of cornering fast, this becomes obvious - you ride hard until the last possible moment, brake before the corner, freewheel round, then accelerate out of it. The deceleration process is more or less eliminated, rendering the advantage of heavier wheels (slower to decelerate due to conservation of momentum) non existent. Assuming two identical riders with the above bikes, putting out the same power at the same time, the rider with the lighter wheels will go through the cornering process quicker - add this up over a crit or road race course and the results are obvious.
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As above - that stored energy dissipates the moment you hit the brakes.
