Riding without pedal reflectors. OK or not?

[Bicycle]

I don't use pedal reflectors.

None of my bicycles have them, nor do those of my children.

My wife has them, but only because I've put an old pair of flats on a roadbike for her until she'll consider clipless.

I don't have those funky spoke-mounted reflectors either.

We wear bright, visible clothing and in poor visibility we are well lit.

The SPDs, Look-style things and Egg Beaters we favour make the ountoing of reflectors unlikely...

But... No-one's ever noticed that we don't have them... No-one's ever advised me to fit them.... No-one seeing me turning up at work without reflectors has patronised me with a 10-minute 'lecture' as I've had sometimes after commuting in a cotton cap.

I think Joe and Mrs Public are broadly unaware of the whole pedal-reflector issue, which may be because it is of no consequence and widely ignored by both Mr and Mrs Plod.

 

[Red Light]

Basic question - what is this thread about? Pedal reflectors?

Nope. You think cyclists RLJing is OK, and you've set up a straw argument about reflectors, which doesn't work .... sorry, but it just doesn't.

No I don't think RLJing is OK and don't do it. But neither do I think its the heinous crime warranting excoriation that its portrayed as. As your driver stats point out its people that RLJ and they do it in a variety of vehicles including bicycles and cars. But why doing it on a bike is always picked out as particularly bad I don't understand. At least they're not driving a ton of lethal metal when they do it..

As for the pedal reflectors its interesting because it negates the argument that its unacceptable because its illegal. It may be unacceptable for other reasons but not just because its breaking the law and its not at all clear what those reasons are. None of those advanced stand up to examination.

And there's any number of similar polls. But ...... since when did motorists being ignorant, dangerous dingbats give me (or you) as a cyclist the right to be a similarly ignorant, dangerous dingbat?

Yes I agree tu quoque is not a good argument but what a cyclist does is by no stretch similarly ignorant or dangerous. Cars as you note tend to pile through at speed during the amber and early red phases hoping they'll get across before anything comes the other way. They are driving a ton of metal and if it goes wrong it tends to go seriously wrong. IME cyclists don't do that . They stop at the junction and wait until its clear to go rather like a pedestrian. And if it does go wrong its only them that gets hurt.

So at worst it demands the same level of disapprobation as red light running by motorists, not what happens which is the regular excoriation.

 

[phantasmagoriana]

I have Shimano M324s on my commuting bike, and have fitted reflectors to them (one of them's fallen off though - forgot to use threadlock on the bolts! ).

Main reason for getting them was because I find them really visible on other cyclists, so thought it would be a good idea. (Admittedly they're most useful when the bikes have no/poor lights, and I always use at least 2 decent lights front and rear so the effect's probably much diminished).

No reflectors on the road bike (M520s) - I don't tend to ride it at night though.

 

[Red Light]

OK all the posters who said they use pedal reflectors to stay legal, do you ever have rear panniers on your bike when your ride at night? Panniers generally obscure pedal reflectors so they are not visible from the rear and therefore ostensibly illegal..

 

[gaz]

OK all the posters who said they use pedal reflectors to stay legal, do you ever have rear panniers on your bike when your ride at night? Panniers generally obscure pedal reflectors so they are not visible from the rear and therefore ostensibly illegal..

Do they also have two lights which conform to the legal requirements? And other reflectors needed?

 

[al78]

OK all the posters who said they use pedal reflectors to stay legal, do you ever have rear panniers on your bike when your ride at night? Panniers generally obscure pedal reflectors so they are not visible from the rear and therefore ostensibly illegal..

No.

 

[BSRU]

It's an interesting question, my normal commuter has pedal reflectors but my road bike does not, but if someone cannot see my magicshine plus ultrafire torch on the front and Dinotte 400R and two Smart 1w on the rear plus reflectives on my shoes,tights and saddlebag then they are not going to see any pedal reflectors. But legally I'm breaking the law.

 

[apollo179]

The main reason for the difference is that most people don't know that riding without pedal reflectors is illegal.

RJL is seen as antisocial.

Plus I believe it's the British sense of fair play. We don't like people breaking rules.

Plus,it looks irresponsible.

it's the "why should we be considerate to cyclists when they go around being inconsiderate, irresponsible and break rules."

Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is.

Personally I DGAF whether I'm liked/disliked. People are irrational.

Agree with everything youve said.
However the reality on the ground, especially in some inner city areas, is that large sectors of society are inconsioderate , irresponsible and break the rules. and that the morality that you refer has been and is being slowly corroded.
In multicultural britain there are people to whom the british sense of fair play is not familiar , indeed there are alot of people who cannot even speak english. We have a decreasingly classic white (fair play) culture.
I am not seeking to critiscise these people , they have there own morality that we may not entirely understand, i am just trying to temper this discussion with a little perspective.
I myself have been horrified when i have seen freinds throw litter without seemingly any qualm , this is because in other countries it is ok to throw litter and indeed other people depend on litter collecting for there livelyhood.
So my point is that you are right but the reality on the ground is not as clear cut as all that.
Anyway have a nice sunday.

 

[John90]

Agree with everything youve said.
However the reality on the ground, especially in some inner city areas, is that large sectors of society are inconsioderate , irresponsible and break the rules. and that the morality that you refer has been and is being slowly corroded.
In multicultural britain there are people to whom the british sense of fair play is not familiar , indeed there are alot of people who cannot even speak english. We have a decreasingly classic white (fair play) culture.
I am not seeking to critiscise these people , they have there own morality that we may not entirely understand, i am just trying to temper this discussion with a little perspective.
I myself have been horrified when i have seen freinds throw litter without seemingly any qualm , this is because in other countries it is ok to throw litter and indeed other people depend on litter collecting for there livelyhood.
So my point is that you are right but the reality on the ground is not as clear cut as all that.
Anyway have a nice sunday.

In other countries it is OK to cut peoples' hands off and stone them to death and indeed other people depend on it for their livelihood.

Apologies for going off-topic, but moral relativism is a bug bear of mine. Everyone understands (or should understand) that littering is a bad thing and 'fair play' is a good thing, they're not just British idiosyncrasies. Same with the RLJ debate.

 

[apollo179]

In other countries it is OK to cut peoples' hands off and stone them to death and indeed other people depend on it for their livelihood.

Apologies for going off-topic, but moral relativism is a bug bear of mine. Everyone understands (or should understand) that littering is a bad thing and 'fair play' is a good thing, they're not just British idiosyncrasies. Same with the RLJ debate.

But increasing numbers of people are brought up on a morality , value system other than the classic british one.
I have seen it with my own eyes people littering totally like it is the normal thing to do , because in other countries it is.
While we encourage people of other cultures to come to this country how can we then be surprised when they bring there own practices with them , some of which may be alien and offensive to us.
I didnt quite get your cutting the hands off point btw ?

 

[dellzeqq]

I've been using SPD-SL pedals for over 5 years now, and with them all through the winter which equates to over 10hours a week in darkness.
The only reflector that I have on my current commuting bike is on the mudguard...............

eek! Get rid now!

 

[John90]

I didnt quite get your cutting the hands off point btw ?

Moral relativism. The idea that because someone's culture/society/religion takes a particular view that it is therefore excusable. All cultures are wrong about some things and some cultures are wrong about more things than others. Anyway, I doubt that littering is a deep-seated cultural phenomenon. It is possible to explain to anyone quickly and simply that it is wrong.

And if they keep doing it, chop their hands off.

 

[apollo179]

Moral relativism. The idea that because someone's culture/society/religion takes a particular view that it is therefore excusable. All cultures are wrong about some things and some cultures are wrong about more things than others. Anyway, I doubt that littering is a deep-seated cultural phenomenon. It is possible to explain to anyone quickly and simply that it is wrong.

And if they keep doing it, chop their hands off.

Gotcha.
The point i was trying to make was not a moral relativist one whereby i excused these foreign practices.
I think they are wrong just as much as you.
It was that the reality is that these customs have infiltrated the indigenous classic english culture , that classic british fair play culture has been and is being eroded .
I may regret this reality as much as you do john but that is what multiculturalism means.
I would add that multiculturism has also brought many benefits to english society.

 

[dellzeqq]

Agree with everything youve said.
However the reality on the ground, especially in some inner city areas, is that large sectors of society are inconsioderate , irresponsible and break the rules. and that the morality that you refer has been and is being slowly corroded.
In multicultural britain there are people to whom the british sense of fair play is not familiar , indeed there are alot of people who cannot even speak english. We have a decreasingly classic white (fair play) culture.
I am not seeking to critiscise these people , they have there own morality that we may not entirely understand, i am just trying to temper this discussion with a little perspective.
I myself have been horrified when i have seen freinds throw litter without seemingly any qualm , this is because in other countries it is ok to throw litter and indeed other people depend on litter collecting for there livelyhood.
So my point is that you are right but the reality on the ground is not as clear cut as all that.
Anyway have a nice sunday.

why am I not surprised? From pedal reflectors to David Starkey!

As far as I know, riding without pedal reflectors is perfectly legal. Selling a bike fitted with pedals but without pedal reflectors is illegal - unless the bike has pedals that are for racing.

 

[on the road]

We have a decreasingly classic white (fair play) culture.

What's that meant to mean?