Restoring a Carlton - Date Informaton and Guidance Please

[Pumpman]

I have just bought an old Carlton and plan to restore it. As I am new to this, I have a number of questions – and I’m sure there will be many more. I hope that one/some of the experienced members will be able to help me.
I have tried to establish the model and date. From posts I have read on this and other sites, I think it is probably a Carlton Continental. I believe it should be possible to date the bike from the frame number. The only number I can see is under the bottom bracket and it is “X1720”.
Several posts refer to a site http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/dating.htm, but this seems to have disappeared from the internet. I have tried to search for alternative sites for Carlton Frame Dating but without success. (Including the word “dating” in any search seems to bring up an odd selection of sites.) Does anyone have any information on Carlton frame numbers or know where I can find any information?
The frame is chromed and I assume it was once coated with a colour, but that has now gone. I think I will probably leave it as bare chrome or maybe line the lugs with some colour. However, before deciding, I was wondering what would be involved in restoring the original lacquer-over-chrome finish. Is this possible as a DIY spray job? If so, what is the paint/lacquer to use?
Regardless of which finish I go for, I will need to clean up the chrome first. It is mostly in good condition (except for an issue with the lamp-boss – see below), but there is some pitting. What is the best way to clean this up? I would have tried T-cut or metal polish, but I have seen a reference in one post to using aluminium foil. Can anyone tell me how this works?
The most visible blemish is on the right-hand fork, where the lamp-boss should be. The boss is missing and there is just a rusty spot. I am happy to live without the boss and I can clean off the rust back to the bare steel of the fork, but I am unsure what to do next. I expect re-chroming would be expensive, so I think I will need to paint some or all of the forks. Can anyone suggest anything better?
Well, that is my entry into the forum – just a load of questions. Hopefully, I can add to the knowledge base as I proceed with the job – but for the moment I would appreciate any answers or comments.

 

[raleighnut]

lots of Carlton fans on here
Depends on what your plans for it are, period restoration or modernised but if you want advice they'll all want piccies plus that helps when asking specific questions.

 

[Bryony]

Sorry I can't help you with the bike, but to the forum.

 

[Cycleops]

I think @Spokesmann is something of a Carlton fan so he might be able to help. Please let's have some pics so we can follow your progress. Have a look at this site: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Carlton.htm
There are other ways to date a bike, components etc. re the forks it might be easier to just get a replacement. You might find this place useful too http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Home.html You can also date by the style of Reynolds sticker.

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[Spokesmann]

Hi Welcome to the forum. Pictures will help a lot here. Carlton can be rougly dated by the lug designs for starters, although frame numbers provide the definative information. Sadly Jerry Mortimores site is now defunct, Im told dave Marsh of Unversal Cycles has taken over the site, but so far not a lot has happened. Get us some images first and then we can take it from there!

 

[biggs682]

Pictures paint a thousand words

 

[Pumpman]

Thanks for the warm welcomes and the responses.
I am hoping for a restoration to about the right period, but not necessarily exactly as original.
I have now taken a few photos. I had taken the complete bike in daylight but I have just taken the others with my phone and its flash - so I hope they are clear enough. This is the complete bike, which is in running order - but with room for improvements.

The next shows the head with the riveted Carlton badge. The lugs are a simple cutaway design. The brakes are GB and I have always liked centre-pulls.

The fork crown is a simple heart-shape, which seems to be on many Carltons.

The seat stays are a tapered wrap-around.

The bottom bracket has a brazed-on cable guide for the rear changer. There is also braze-on on the down-tube for a front changer (although I don't think the bike has ever had one).

There is a grease nipple on the underside of the bottom bracket. There is also a number "X1720", which I had taken to be the frame number at first, but there is also another number towards the front of the BB, "2558043", which I think is more likely to be it

.

Simple front dropouts, no markings.

Rear drop-outs have no markings and no gear hanger. There is a Shimano derailleur, which I assume is not original.

There are 5 gears and there is a clip-on Huret lever on the down-tube. I think this is probably original. There is a brazed on stop below the clip.

I have a couple more photos, but it seems I have reached the limit. I will try to add them as a separate post.

 

[Pumpman]

Well here are the last ones.
The stem is GB but there are no markings on the bars. I assume both are original. The stem is drilled for the brake cable. The brake levers (not shown on the photo) are GB with release buttons built into the top of the moving lever. (I can only remember seeing these built into the fixed part of levers before.)

The pedals seem to be steel frames on alloy hubs. I have no idea if these are original or not. I have bought some toe-clips and straps to fit, but I will need to treat them with caution after some years of riding clipless.

Overall, the condition of the bike seems ok. The lacquer has been removed from the chrome (and any tubing stickers, etc. have gone with it) but the remains suggest it was a gold or bronze colour. This was only visible on the bottom bracket, but the flash photos show it up elsewhere also. I think I will be aiming for a brighter colour scheme. I am not sure what to do about the lamp-boss, missing from the front fork. I think I will probably do without it and try to find a way of cleaning and covering it up. Not the purist's approach. I know.

I expect to be working on the bike over the winter as I will be fitting it in between domestic jobs and some travel. In that time, I will be looking for a few new parts. I plan to change it to 10 gears (probably changing the rear derailleur also) and to fit a better saddle. Before doing any of this I would love to find out the model and the approximate date, so that my "loosely period" restoration is not too loose. Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[biggs682]

looks great please dont go mad , why not just clean up frame and make the simple mods you suggested above .

Pedals are not genuine ones at all

nice find

 

[raleighnut]

Nice bike, age wise I'd say late 60s early 70s (poss 72 from the No) I'm with bigg682 on this, a good clean up and cables, chain, bar tape (cloth) and brake blocks. But are they steel rims if so watch out braking in the wet.

 

[Cycleops]

Looks like quite a lot has been changed on the bike. The pedals, rear derailleur, saddle and possibly the chainset have been replaced. The handlebar stem has been drilled to act as a hanger for cable, there should be a separate one mounted on the headset. If you want to restore it to original condition including a re paint it's going to be expensive. It's not a high end bike so you'll have to decide is it worth it. I would do as Biggs suggests. Maybe get a set of s/h alloy wheels, new NOS rear mech, tyres, tubes, brake hanger, new chainset, chain, saddle and you should be go to go. Even then it won't be cheap. Can you move the seat post? Changing it to ten speed may be a problem as their is no guide for the cable. Date wise I would say around mid sixties.

 

[Spokesmann]

Quite a confection of parts. The frame dates it from latter part of 60s, as has been said there are a number of later addtions to this bike. GB 66 Courier brakes may well be original, although these were dropped latter part of the 60s. Are there no markings on the rear LH drop out or behind saddle downtube? Bars and stem look to be period correct. It could well be a Cobra, but I would not say this for definate. Worth spending a little time to make it more presentable.

 

[Spokesmann]

Here are letter dating prefixes...

Early frame numbers were prefixed with a letter. They were stamped on the left side rear dropout.
A 1939 F 1957-58 L 1963
B 1940-48 G 1959 M 1964
C 1948-52 H 1960 S 1965
D 1953-54 J 1961 T 1966
E 1955-56 K 1962 Y 1967

 

[midlife]

Hi, This is what it probably looked like in it's warpaint, this is my early Carlton Cobra 1968-1972

Shaun

 

[Spokesmann]

Looks sad that frame Shaun, its needs some love.