Repentence required - 2021 Genesis Croix de Fer 20 Flat Bar

[wafter]

I can always go take a tape measure to mine.

Have 8-speed on the back of the MTB, mainly because I don't dare spread the triangle any further, and 9 speed Altus on the hybrid. Both very much "Ronseal" drivetrains, but with tiddly bikes, you just have to use what fits. Middle ring is generally where I'm at. I did put bigger gearing on the Raleigh, as the original crankset was designed for kiddies and had my legs spinning away without much in the way of forward progress.

Cheers

You might get away with more no the back of the MTB if you so desire - IIRC road (rim-brake) is 130mm between dropouts for everything from 8sp - 11sp (not sure about 12) while MTBs are 135mm from some point but not sure when (might be 8 or 9 - my Fuji is 9 and 135mm).

So... if you wanted more tha 8 and are already on 130mm you could potentially do it with road setup. Might involve more wheel dishing though (with correspondingly less strength) so perhaps not a great idea. Nowt wrong with 8 in any case!

Tbh I usually find even Shimano's low-end stuff to be very good and great value it's all good if it does the job



A "quick" update after yeterday's short ride - the first "proper" one of any distance out on local bridleways. Pre-departure the bike was fitted with the lovely King stainless cage that had been sat waiting to be fitted to the Ragley - looks like I need to buy another one or two of those, then... will perhaps keep an eye out second-hand.

I also fitted the out-front Polar mount to the handlebars that had been removed from my now-sold Boardman - in the past these have always been a bit of a swine to source for a new bike so it was nice to just be able to grab this from the parts box.

I won't repeat the content posted to "your ride today", however suffice to say it wasn't without problems - the narrow, a-bit-longer-than-I'd-like crank feeling conspicuously so and making its presence felt in my knees by the end. The cheapo caged pedals were difficult to get on with as the thick grease and poor bearing surfaces meant they ended up in all manner of orientations rather than just hanging nose-down - making intuitive foot-insertion challenging.

By the end the evidently poorly-fitted toe cages were hanging off thanks to loss of some loose fixings, so I removed them completely. I'd planned to keep the pedals but might replace them with something better..

All that aside the bike generally rode well; the fatter 42mm (?) tyres feeling tangibly better on the rough stuff than I recall the 37mm items on my CdF 30, their tread inspring more confidence on grass and loose surfaces. While the off-road bits were cetainly tame, the bike proved forgiving, confident and laid back with no drama and it certainly felt like I had to work less hard than with the narrower drops on the '30.

On top of that the shifters felt a lot more secure to operate while hanging on for dear life compared to the 105 STIs on the '30 - I think both due to the different hand position on the bars and the longish stroke required by the STIs when pulling cable - which is particularly noticeable on the LH / front shifter.

The seemingly relatively minor differences between the flat-bar 20 and curly-bar 30 conspire to make them feel really quite different. The '30 feels far more road-adjacent which is fine as it's about as close to a "proper" road bike I really feel the need to get, while still being capable on mild off-road terrain.

The flat-bar 20 exudes an air of old-school MTB with its rigid forks, skinny tubes, monochrome paint and still relatively sharp geometry (compared to modern offerings) which is no bad thing. This theme would be continued if I fit a nice triple; although I suspect some of this will also be lost if I fit slicks along with the inevitable mudguards and rack. Of course these are necessary for its intended purpose and I certainly can't justify another leisure-only bike.

Anyway, a few pics - thankfully terrain was largely dry so the bike only saw a light coating of dust, although I really need to get some guards sorted out.. along with all the other bits necessary to make it properly useable.

 

[postman]

Genesis 1 verses 1-31.but there is a verse 32.So verse 31 says,God saw all that he had made and it was very good.And there was evening and there was morning-the sixth day, Verse 32, he made the bicycle and heaven was in rapture.Angels and Cherubim rejoiced.

 

[Reynard]

Cheers

You might get away with more no the back of the MTB if you so desire - IIRC road (rim-brake) is 130mm between dropouts for everything from 8sp - 11sp (not sure about 12) while MTBs are 135mm from some point but not sure when (might be 8 or 9 - my Fuji is 9 and 135mm).

So... if you wanted more tha 8 and are already on 130mm you could potentially do it with road setup. Might involve more wheel dishing though (with correspondingly less strength) so perhaps not a great idea. Nowt wrong with 8 in any case!

Tbh I usually find even Shimano's low-end stuff to be very good and great value it's all good if it does the job

8 speed does me pretty well tbh. I had to spread the triangle to go from the original 5 up to 8. In any case, I'm too crap a cyclist to warrant getting the truly fancy stuff. And the dust / mud out here acts like a grinding paste - the chunky low end stuff just lasts longer.

I'll measure the cranks up for you, though exactly how useful that will be, I don't know. Bearing I ride with pretty small cranks (155mm IIRC) given I'm only 4ft 11

 

[All uphill]

8 speed does me pretty well tbh. I had to spread the triangle to go from the original 5 up to 8. In any case, I'm too crap a cyclist to warrant getting the truly fancy stuff. And the dust / mud out here acts like a grinding paste - the chunky low end stuff just lasts longer.

I'll measure the cranks up for you, though exactly how useful that will be, I don't know. Bearing I ride with pretty small cranks (155mm IIRC) given I'm only 4ft 11

I'm like you; 8 or 9 speed is fine for me. Robust and simple.

I've had 105 11 speed and it was great; slick changes front and back, close ratios, but it turned out that is not what I need for the rides I do. Sora and Deore is just fine.

 

[wafter]

Genesis 1 verses 1-31.but there is a verse 32.So verse 31 says,God saw all that he had made and it was very good.And there was evening and there was morning-the sixth day, Verse 32, he made the bicycle and heaven was in rapture.Angels and Cherubim rejoiced.

lol - *apart from the one sour-faced one at the back whinging about weld quality and cranksets

8 speed does me pretty well tbh. I had to spread the triangle to go from the original 5 up to 8. In any case, I'm too crap a cyclist to warrant getting the truly fancy stuff. And the dust / mud out here acts like a grinding paste - the chunky low end stuff just lasts longer.

I'll measure the cranks up for you, though exactly how useful that will be, I don't know. Bearing I ride with pretty small cranks (155mm IIRC) given I'm only 4ft 11

That's fair - I'm certainly not one to jump on the "moer speeds!" bandwagon.. although irritatingly I seem to have become a victim of this constant "evolution" - six bikes, six different drivetrain standards with little cross-compatability with 5, 8,9,10,11 and 12sp currently represented.

IIRC 8sp sprockets (well, chain internal width) are slightly thicker than all that came after, then they're all the same up to 12sp. I have however learned that chains for drivetrains with more speeds are often made to a better standard (materials / tolerancing) so will last longer, although of course are priced accordingly.

If you have a problem with airbourne dust waxing the chain would make this go away, although would arguably be inferior to oil in the face of wet mud..

Cheers re. the cranks - you did well to get 155mm!

I'm like you; 8 or 9 speed is fine for me. Robust and simple.

I've had 105 11 speed and it was great; slick changes front and back, close ratios, but it turned out that is not what I need for the rides I do. Sora and Deore is just fine.

Always empowering to be happy with the more basic stuff. I'm generally happy with the 3x9 Deore on the Fuji, although truth be told the shifting is (unsurprisingly) noticeably inferior to the spanky new 1x12 SLX on the Ragley.

Both the Fuji and crerdefer 30 have 11-34 cassettes (9 and 11sp respectively) and I never find the former lacking in comparison. On the contrary, the better chainline on the 3x9 allow me to use all of the 9 sprockets on the back while the 2x11 setup starts to complain when I get within a couple of sprockets of the "wrong" end of the cassette.

Prices are "interesting" too - the HG400 on the Fuji is about 2-2.5 times cheaper than the HG700 on the Genesis..




Another inconsequential update to confirm the ongoing lack of progress with the bike..

I remain on the fence about mudguards - choices I think boiling down to the two least-worst offerings from SKS in the stark vacuum that remains now they've killed off the beloved Longboards.

Bluemels Matt (45 & 53mm) - seemingly very similar to the Longboard but the front is considerably shorter (780mm v. 960mm), the finish is more subdued and the hardware a little different.

Bluemels Style (46 and 56mm) - a more modern style with a much squarer profile, a longer front (880mm) and totally different mounting setup.

Being similar to the Longboards I have on my '30 the Matt are more of a known quantity, but I remain unimpressed by their length. The Style on the other hand appeal more from this perspective, however I think fit at the chainstay bridge might prove problematic.

While the bridge is square it's only 42mm wide, and even though the stays taper outward steeply from this point the sides of the Style guards are basically at 90 degrees to their flat outer surface, so I suspect would still foul the stays.

By contrast the Longboards on my '30 are a fantastic fit in this area with zero contact and about 1mm clearance on either side.

On top of all this fitting the NDS stays at the front looks like it's going to be an enormous ballache thanks to the bloody old and stupid IS-fitment brake assembly sitting maybe 15-20mm outboard of the guard mounting points directly infront on the fork; meaning I either have to lash up some horrible bodge with spacers or mount the stays elsewhere. I've seen "fitting kits" that allow mounts to be placed further up the fork; however this brings additional cost and looks pretty manky IMO.

Another black mark against Genesis and their love of ancient standards - IMO it's unconscionable that they're still using QRs and IS-mount on bikes this recent and pricey; especially since the higher-end models have had TAs and flat-mount calipers since 2019.

I do wonder whether, given my descerning requirements it might not have been better to have kept an eye out for a used TA framset; although these are typically very thin on the ground..


In other news it seems I've scored a nice-looking Deore M590 48/36/26 crankset on ebay for not a lot of money. This is the same unit as fitted to my Fuji so a well-known quantity and seemingly a bit of a unicorn - being an oldish crankset with the 170mm arms before everyone became obsessed with shorter crank arms.

This crankset also represents a bit of an inflection point; old enough to still have proper ratios (most later gear went a lot lower due to being MTB-adjacent) while late / posh enough to have the Hollowtech axle arrangement rather than the earlier / lower Octalink arrangement. Also, some of the later 104/64mm BCD cranksets were hamstrung with questionable aesthetics - looking a bit like they'd been left out in the sun and now very dated as a result.

The rings are 9sp but I'm hoping this won't be an issue as in reality there seems very little difference in ring spacing between this and 10sp, so fingers' crossed I'll get away with a 10sp chain and FD. Worst case I can always squirrel the crank away for future use as Shimano appear to be killing off the triple chainset so they'll become increasingly difficult to find and I'd never begrudge a decent example cupboard space