Reflective Paint

[domtyler]

I was told this by a friend who was an A & E nurse at the time, just figured that someone who was both a cyclist and on the recieving end of RTA's might have known their onions. If I am mistaken, forgive me.
anyway, as has been said this is the subject for a whole other thread.

T x

"it is proven that at impacts around 30mph wearing a well fitting lid can seriously limit potential damage to the skull"

So basically, it is NOT proven that impacts around 30mph wearing a well fitting lid can seriously limit potential damage to the skull then?

 

[magnatom]

You should of course be riding where you're visible regardless of whether you're in high-viz, but you seem to be saying that you think you might stop doing this if you're not wearing high viz. My response is that, intuitively, I think that if you change your behaviour if not wearing high viz then surely you'd be takiong different risks instead, you'd be riding maybe further out, you'd be in primary position even more often. There may be some risk compensation going on, only I don't agree that you'd be acting more timidly when you should, to compensate for that risk, be acting more assertively.

Maybe, but do you agree that risk compensation is temporary as I have described?

 

[domtyler]

Maybe, but do you agree that risk compensation is temporary as I have described?

I don't think anyone can argue this point, anyone with a working brain will adapt over time, it is called learning.

 

[BentMikey]

And I cycled the second half my route this morning without my HiViz. I wanted maximum visibility for the first part on the really busy road (Muller Rd) with queueing traffic, but after the M32 motorway roundabout I took it off. I didn't notice any difference in the way I cycled (other than I was cooler). I don't use HiViz in summer either so do I stop risk compensating then?

Isn't the bolded bit a near perfect example of risk compensation? The bit about not using it in summer might also be a good risk compensation example - perhaps you're only using it in winter because light conditions aren't as good?

 

[BentMikey]

Ah tdr1nka, 30mph? I think not, time to go read up on the various bicycle helmet tests at www.cyclehelmets.org

 

[magnatom]

Isn't the bolded bit a near perfect example of risk compensation? The bit about not using it in summer might also be a good risk compensation example - perhaps you're only using it in winter because light conditions aren't as good?

No. Risk reduction. Surely risk compensation is where, if when wearing the hi-viz/helmet etc he decided to cycle more recklessly?

 

[magnatom]

I don't think anyone can argue this point, anyone with a working brain will adapt over time, it is called learning.

Indeed. Then I think you are suggesting that Mike doesn't have a brain (I have one, just look at my avatar ) As far as I am aware, Mike is suggesting that by wearing hi-viz we are more likely to cycle recklessly. I suggest that this at most is a temporary situation and Mike is suggesting that it is more permanent. Is this right Mike?

 

[domtyler]

Indeed. Then I think you are suggesting that Mike doesn't have a brain (I have one, just look at my avatar ) As far as I am aware, Mike is suggesting that by wearing hi-viz we are more likely to cycle recklessly. I suggest that this at most is a temporary situation and Mike is suggesting that it is more permanent. Is this right Mike?

I think that Mike Papa Mike is suggesting that after the bedding in period folk tend to cycle under more assumptions than they would do otherwise.

 

[magnatom]

I think that Mike Papa Mike is suggesting that after the bedding in period folk tend to cycle under more assumptions than they would do otherwise.

i.e they risk compensate? I don't buy it.

I should say that despite this disagreement I think Mike talks sense nearly all of the time . So no hard feelings, of course!

As for Dom though....

 

[BentMikey]

No. Risk reduction. Surely risk compensation is where, if when wearing the hi-viz/helmet etc he decided to cycle more recklessly?

The net effect is that behaviour is used to modify perceived risk towards an "acceptable" norm.

In this case the poster is happy to lose the safety equipment when he feels safer, and needs it for the perceived more dangerous environment. If we were to somehow make him cycle the bit he perceives as more dangerous without hiviz, he would almost certainly ride a tiny fraction more conservatively, bringing risk back to his own acceptance level.

As for adaptation to a situation, that's quite different to the hiviz and risk compensation discussion.

 

[magnatom]

The net effect is that behaviour is used to modify perceived risk towards an "acceptable" norm.

In this case the poster is happy to lose the safety equipment when he feels safer, and needs it for the perceived more dangerous environment. If we were to somehow make him cycle the bit he perceives as more dangerous without hiviz, he would almost certainly ride a tiny fraction more conservatively, bringing risk back to his own acceptance level.

As for adaptation to a situation, that's quite different to the hiviz and risk compensation discussion.

I still don't buy this. I don't wear my hi-viz jacket in the summer. The main reason is that it is too hot. I could buy a hi-viz wastecoat, but in the summer I perceive that the benifits of this reduce significantly, due to the improved contrast available from the additional light.

The only way my cycling might change during the summer is that I ride faster due to less air friction!

It is not behaviour that is modified to reduce perceived risk to the norm, it is the use of safety aids such as a hi-viz jacket that is modified to reduce risk to the norm.

I must admit if I have a jacket on for a ride I will keep it on for a ride. I see no point in faffing around putting stuff on, or taking it off, unless I get hot etc.

 

[tdr1nka]

"it is proven that at impacts around 30mph wearing a well fitting lid can seriously limit potential damage to the skull"

So basically, it is NOT proven that impacts around 30mph wearing a well fitting lid can seriously limit potential damage to the skull then?

Yeah, OK but with every respect Dom my friend had been privvy to medical stats and RTA data and had switched to wearing a lid immediately after reading them.

Anyway back to the reflective paint issue........*ahem*

T x

 

[domtyler]

Yeah, OK but with every respect Dom my friend had been privvy to medical stats and RTA data and had switched to wearing a lid immediately after reading them.

Anyway back to the reflective paint issue........*ahem*

T x

I don't that information is classified, it is all out there. But, as you say, back to the reflective paint.

 

[Terminator]

Seems like you guys/gals have been busy on here while I have been working and commuting (with my hi-viz gear).

 

[Terminator]

In this case the poster is happy to lose the safety equipment when he feels safer, and needs it for the perceived more dangerous environment.


Doesn't apply to me mikey I wear it all year round.