Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
If you hadn't said it I would have!
Red Light Jumping
- Thread starter apollo179
- Start date
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If you hadn't said it I would have!
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
I am sure there is more than one!
and he complains about victim blaming FFS!
the guy who died was a law breaking peanut. the victim was the innocent law abiding motorist who has to live with the idea that someone died when they hit him. Just as train drivers are the victim when someone kills themselves by walking in-front of a train.
[QUOTE 1526328"]
Let's be real. Some on here are trying to translate the 3am scenario to commuting.
[/quote]
If you're talking about apollo, your claim is that he wants to justify his RLJ at busy junctions, but as far as I can remember (and I acknowledge that I had a very good weekend and so I may have forgotten parts of the thread) he hasn't actually said so
If you're talking about anyone else they're off-topic
If you're seriously suggesting that the purpose of this whole thread has been nothing more than 30 pages of back and forth "RLJing at night is OK"/"That's irrelevant because you refuse to admit you RLJ in the daytime and that's wrong", perhaps it would have been better conducted as an exchange of private messages?
Let's be real. Some on here are trying to translate the 3am scenario to commuting.
[/quote]
If you're talking about apollo, your claim is that he wants to justify his RLJ at busy junctions, but as far as I can remember (and I acknowledge that I had a very good weekend and so I may have forgotten parts of the thread) he hasn't actually said so
If you're talking about anyone else they're off-topic
If you're seriously suggesting that the purpose of this whole thread has been nothing more than 30 pages of back and forth "RLJing at night is OK"/"That's irrelevant because you refuse to admit you RLJ in the daytime and that's wrong", perhaps it would have been better conducted as an exchange of private messages?
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Bob Newhart?
[QUOTE 1526337"]
This thread is about red light jumping and is the same as all the rest, with the occasional mention of introducing alternative light programming.
It's about the pros and cons of RLJing. And as with every other jumping thread there are attempts to translate the low-risk of any 3am activity to the reality of the commute.
Simply, just because a junction may be deserted at 3am doesn't mean that it's ok to ignore lights on your ride into work.
[/quote]unless you're riding an Apollo, and must, perforce, set off five hours early.
IGMC
This thread is about red light jumping and is the same as all the rest, with the occasional mention of introducing alternative light programming.
It's about the pros and cons of RLJing. And as with every other jumping thread there are attempts to translate the low-risk of any 3am activity to the reality of the commute.
Simply, just because a junction may be deserted at 3am doesn't mean that it's ok to ignore lights on your ride into work.
[/quote]unless you're riding an Apollo, and must, perforce, set off five hours early.
IGMC
The law says it's not, as you well know (but I need to point out to avoid someone else doing it)
In my view: it might be but it's unlikely to be. It would depend on whether pedestrians were discommoded, frightened, or intimidated by your action - perhaps you would get on better in a smaller car than in a 4x4, for example, or if you were in a convertible with the top down so that they could more readily identify you as human and make eye contact with you. I would say that pedestrians - especially the infirm and elderly - by and large mistrust motor vehicles and don't like sharing space with them, so on balance I would probably say "no". But I would probably also say "no" to many of the cyclists that you see doing the same thing too, and for the same reason. A cyclist pushing or sedately scooting his bike is not obviously going to accelerate to light speed and push peds to the ground like dominoes before him, ditto granny on her shopper: a BMXer weaving all over the road or a lycra-ed up roadie with wrap-around shades - again, that eye contact thing - would represent a bigger potential threat, and anyone in a tin box would likely be perceived as more dangerous yet. It's a matter of degree
Sorry I can't give a more categorical answer. It's all about being able to have expectations of the actions of others: by choosing to blow that light you have violated their expectations, and I think there are few (not zero but not far from it) occasions in scenarios like that where you could ensure that your unexpected action is not going to give rise to alarm or concern in other road users
(Caveat: I don't know Wimbledon very well)
OP
OP
apollo179
Well-Known Member
To summaridse the "MrPaul" scenario.
I started this topic to explore the issue of rljing beyong just the "its against the law therefore its wrong" perspective.
MrPauls tried to get me to disclose my own personal habits because MrPauls arguement basically is that in the real world noone rljs at 2 in the morning when it is safe, everyone rljs when it is busy and unsafe.
Obviously there is some truth in what MrPaul says but it is juxtapose to what the thread is about.
This topic is about considering circumsatnces where it is safe to navigate junctions and the implications that that has one the implementation of traffic lights.
I refused to cooperate with MrPauls personal line of inquiry as i thought it irrevevant and at odds with the Moderators direction : "Debate the issue, but don't make it personal. "
Ever since MrPaul has been on this bizarre crusade to biscredit me by painting me as a dangerous rljer etc etc rather than discuss the issue in a sensible manner.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Mr Paul us doing no such thing. He is simply seeking to establish whether or not your behaviour has changed since your realised RLJing was against the law. He may well have missed your reply to me. Once again asking "do you or don't you" is not the type of "personal" the mods were referring to.
Is it ever safe?
In another thread a poster is suggesting he is unaware of the presence of motorcycles on the road until they have overtaken him.
Perhaps in view of that RLJing can never be deemed to be safe as there may well be an invisible, inaudible motorcycle approaching (at mach3 - as suggested by another sensationalist poster in the same thead).
martint235
Dog on a bike
- Location
- Welling
To summarise 38 pages of mainly dross:
1. RLJing is against the law. This is unlikely to change anytime soon.
2. If it is made legal, most people don't have a problem with it. See 1.
3. The original question of "Is it only wrong because it is illegal" is irrelevant. It was made illegal for valid reasons of safety for the majority. It allows other road users to anticipate what will happen in a given situation. This is a good thing.
4. Yes we know that pedestrians operate outside these rules of consistency. Get over it.
5. Apollo is refusing to answer Mr Paul's question on the basis that it is personal. All questions directed towards a person are by nature personal. It does not mean it is a personal attack which is what the moderators wanted to cease on earlier threads.
Now I'm sure (or at least I would hope) that people have better things to do with their lives.
Now how do I block a thread.........
1. RLJing is against the law. This is unlikely to change anytime soon.
2. If it is made legal, most people don't have a problem with it. See 1.
3. The original question of "Is it only wrong because it is illegal" is irrelevant. It was made illegal for valid reasons of safety for the majority. It allows other road users to anticipate what will happen in a given situation. This is a good thing.
4. Yes we know that pedestrians operate outside these rules of consistency. Get over it.
5. Apollo is refusing to answer Mr Paul's question on the basis that it is personal. All questions directed towards a person are by nature personal. It does not mean it is a personal attack which is what the moderators wanted to cease on earlier threads.
Now I'm sure (or at least I would hope) that people have better things to do with their lives.
Now how do I block a thread.........
OP
OP
apollo179
Well-Known Member
'Jedward behavior'
This is when 2 people hold an opinion that is different from MrPauls prompting MrPaul to conclude that the only explanation must be that the 2 people are in fact the same person.
In MrPauls narrow minded world it is inconceivable that there are 2 people that hold an opinion different from his own.
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