Recycled Plastic Lumber Or Timber Fencing?

[Ian H]

We put in slotted posts and gravel boards of concrete, with good-quality wooden panels. It's the posts that rot, and any wood that touches the ground. Decent, treated wood panels last almost forever.

 

[JtB]

I would reduce your hedge to the smallest size possible so that it still does the job before you do it. Most hedges can be made lower and one or two stems taken off the ends which saves a lot of work.

The hedges are about 2.8M tall and we are looking to replace them with something 2.5M tall. It can’t be any lower since it needs to provide screening for a railway embankment. Any suggested alternatives would be welcome. I guess a brick wall would be the ideal solution, but that would be far more expensive.

 

[raleighnut]

According to The History Guy, Phillips screws were developed in the American marine & aircraft industry because of the very thin alu & wood sheets being used were very prone to damage when overenthusiastic / poorly trained fitters were using slotted screws with power drivers. Thus the Phillips screw then the Pozidrive came about so they would cam out at a certain torque thus preventing damage to said panels.
My preference is for Robertson screws, the standard in Canada.

If the 'history guy' is whom I'm thinking it is then he's talking absolute bollards.

The jury is out...

"The design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners. Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents."

​

Have you ever tried to put a slotted screw in with a 'power driver', next to impossible without the bit wandering off and gouging the workpiece, hence the need for a crosshead design to avoid this

My experience after working many years making shopfitting cabinetry and display units and fitting hundreds of thousands of screws is that once a bit starts to 'cam out' it should be discarded and a new bit used. I've even got screwdriver bits with Diamond coating to prevent wear to the bit

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Crying out loud the price per panel £173 put this tight Yorkshieman off straight away.

Fence, you were lucky, we had to sit on barbed wire in our shorts…

 

[screenman]

I would save the money you are thinking about spending on a fence and hire someone to cut that nice hedge each year.

 

[Drago]

Can't beat a nicely trimmed bush.

 

[Drago]

If the 'history guy' is whom I'm thinking it is then he's talking absolute bollards.



Have you ever tried to put a slotted screw in with a 'power driver', next to impossible without the bit wandering off and gouging the workpiece, hence the need for a crosshead design to avoid this

My experience after working many years making shopfitting cabinetry and display units and fitting hundreds of thousands of screws is that once a bit starts to 'cam out' it should be discarded and a new bit used. I've even got screwdriver bits with Diamond coating to prevent wear to the bit

Hey, no argument from me either way. My toolkit consists of an array of hammers.

I'm a man of action. I leave the clever stuff to those that chew tobacco and have at least 2 fingers missing.

 

[JtB]

Crying out loud the price per panel £173 put this tight Yorkshieman off straight away.

I just costed the materials for one 2.5M high, 3.95M long section of this fencing (20 rails plus 1 post) and it comes to £867.60. That’s £219.60 per metre in materials alone.

 

[JtB]

We put in slotted posts and gravel boards of concrete, with good-quality wooden panels. It's the posts that rot, and any wood that touches the ground. Decent, treated wood panels last almost forever.

I’m starting to incline towards this direction now.

 

[JtB]

A local fencing contractor has suggested concrete slotted posts with concrete gravel boards and Treated C24 Carcassing Timber Boards (1830mm x 150mm x 47mm) screwed into vertical timber rails per the following diagram:

Searching the internet I don't seem to be able to find any examples of this type of fencing construction. The closest I can find is "acoustic fencing", however this uses timber boards which are tongue and grooved. The main concern I have therefore with the above fencing construction suggested by the fencing contractor is that if the individual timber boards start to bow/warp over time, then gaps will start to open up between the individual timber boards because they are not tongue and grooved. Admittedly the individual boards will be screwed into vertical timber rails, but I'm not sure if this will be sufficient to prevent significant gaps opening up over time.

I'd appreciate therefore the opinions of anyone with knowledge / experience in this area.

 

[Alex321]

A local fencing contractor has suggested concrete slotted posts with concrete gravel boards and Treated C24 Carcassing Timber Boards (1830mm x 150mm x 47mm) screwed into vertical timber rails per the following diagram:

View attachment 737896

Searching the internet I don't seem to be able to find any examples of this type of fencing construction. The closest I can find is "acoustic fencing", however this uses timber boards which are tongue and grooved. The main concern I have therefore with the above fencing construction suggested by the fencing contractor is that if the individual timber boards start to bow/warp over time, then gaps will start to open up between the individual timber boards because they are not tongue and grooved. Admittedly the individual boards will be screwed into vertical timber rails, but I'm not sure if this will be sufficient to prevent significant gaps opening up over time.

I'd appreciate therefore the opinions of anyone with knowledge / experience in this area.

The timber boards will be overlapped, so you shouldn't get gaps appearing between them.
Like this sort of thing
https://www.buyfencingdirect.co.uk/super-panel-65

 

[JtB]

The timber boards will be overlapped, so you shouldn't get gaps appearing between them.
Like this sort of thing
https://www.buyfencingdirect.co.uk/super-panel-65

These are quite thick timbers (47mm) which sit on top of each other with no overlap.

 

[Alex321]

These are quite thick timbers (47mm) which sit on top of each other with no overlap.
View attachment 737910

Bloody hell! I've never seen fences using timbers that size for the panels.

Different scenario altogether. But they also shouldn't warp much between the vertical rails.

 

[Electric_Andy]

In terms of cost versus durability, I'd go for posts and feather edge board, but hear me out:

Posts should be fitted with a protector jacket; Wickes do a pack of 10 for £35. I've taken out a fair few rotten posts in my time (for friends and relatives) and all of them that rotted did not have any sign of a rot protector in the ground. They guarantee 20 years of life. Other factors can speed up rotting, such as accidentally creating a dip at the surface of the post which holds water in a pool, so best to make a mound with the concrete rather than a dip.

For the feather edge board, they don't come in lengths as high as you want but they do commonly come in 1.5M lengths so you can go 2 high. Again, a lot of these fail after a few years because they are not looked after properly (same goes for wooden decking). Our garden is surrounded by a feather edge fence which the previous owners did not put any treatment on at all. It's still ok after 10 years but I'm surprised it's lasted that long. We are quite exposed up here and the atatched is how they look now after pressure washing.

I do think that cheap methods of fencing get a bad rep because people expect it to last 20 years just painting it once. If you use a good quality protector and refersh every few years it can last a long time.

Regarding wind, movement, flexing: I've used short concrete posts as anchors before and they make a very stable base for a high fence. So you can concrete in the wooden post and the concrete post behind, and bolt the wooden post to it. This means the leverage is further up and not at base level. It might mean that you lose 8 inches width of your garden but it's something to consider. There is a certain nailing method you should use for boards so they can expand and contract without warping

 

[JtB]

My preferred solution is feather edge fencing, but I don’t want timber posts or timber gravel boards. With slotted concrete posts you can have concrete gravel boards but I’m not sure you can attach arris rails (for the feather edge boards). With steel posts you can attach arris rails but for some reason I’m finding they’re not compatible with concrete gravel boards.
The other possibility is close board panels which can be custom made for the height I want, however maintenance would be an issue for the future if I needed to replace a panel. There’s no way a 2.6m panel could be lifted above 2.6m slotted concrete posts.