Questions you'd like answering, regardless of how trivial they may seem

[icowden]

Who works harder nurses or teachers....?

I'll get the 🍿🍿🍿🍿

It's quite hard to evaluate. When at work, both teachers and nurses work hard with few breaks. Nurses tend to work longer shifts than Teachers, but Teachers will often take work home to do in the evenings. Nurses work on a shift pattern rather than Monday to Friday. Teachers do get around 12 weeks holiday per year compared to a Nurses holiday of 35 days per year, but do go in for some of those holiday periods to do training, prep classrooms etc.

On balance, I think Teachers have it slightly better than nurses as they always get weekends, Easter, Summer and Christmas holidays whereas Nurses don't have an entitlement to any particular day of the year off. Obviously some Nursing jobs are not 24/7 but most people will think of hospital Ward Nursing when considering Nursing in this sort of argument.

What they both have in common is a lot of work involved for relatively poor pay.

 

[DRM]

It's quite hard to evaluate. When at work, both teachers and nurses work hard with few breaks. Nurses tend to work longer shifts than Teachers, but Teachers will often take work home to do in the evenings. Nurses work on a shift pattern rather than Monday to Friday. Teachers do get around 12 weeks holiday per year compared to a Nurses holiday of 35 days per year, but do go in for some of those holiday periods to do training, prep classrooms etc.

On balance, I think Teachers have it slightly better than nurses as they always get weekends, Easter, Summer and Christmas holidays whereas Nurses don't have an entitlement to any particular day of the year off. Obviously some Nursing jobs are not 24/7 but most people will think of hospital Ward Nursing when considering Nursing in this sort of argument.

What they both have in common is a lot of work involved for relatively poor pay.

Can I just point out that teachers may get the holidays, but they don’t get paid for being off, yet still end up marking work & prepping classes, a common fallacy that many people fall for, as I posted earlier teachers will be in at 07:30 until 18:00, then do work at home too, a nurse will be on 06:00 to 14:00, 14:00 to 22:00 & 22:00 to 06:00, with breaks set in stone, many teachers don’t get a lunch break as they’re doing some other duty/job and maybe get 10 minutes to throw a sandwich down before starting it, and a rush to get to the loo before the afternoon session starts, the hourly rate for teaching is actually appaling for the amount of actual hours worked

 

[KnittyNorah]

Can I just point out that teachers may get the holidays, but they don’t get paid for being off, yet still end up marking work & prepping classes, a common fallacy that many people fall for, as I posted earlier teachers will be in at 07:30 until 18:00, then do work at home too, a nurse will be on 06:00 to 14:00, 14:00 to 22:00 & 22:00 to 06:00, with breaks set in stone, many teachers don’t get a lunch break as they’re doing some other duty/job and maybe get 10 minutes to throw a sandwich down before starting it, and a rush to get to the loo before the afternoon session starts, the hourly rate for teaching is actually appaling for the amount of actual hours worked

Just one point - breaks for any 'frontline' hospital workers are very, very far from 'set in stone' - and if someone doesn't come in to replace you at the end of the shift, then you stay until someone does, if you are in a 24/7 job.
In short, even from the POV of someone who retired from health services 15 years ago, 'what is a lunch break?' and 'what is Christmas?'

 

[DRM]

Just one point - breaks for any 'frontline' hospital workers are very, very far from 'set in stone' - and if someone doesn't come in to replace you at the end of the shift, then you stay until someone does, if you are in a 24/7 job.
In short, even from the POV of someone who retired from health services 15 years ago, 'what is a lunch break?' and 'what is Christmas?'

The main difference is the NHS is being set up for privatisation, ie underfund it till it’s on it’s knees, getting the general public to whinge and moan and suggest that it’s a better working system in America, then sell it off to your mates, that’s why it’s in the state it is, but by front line that’s A&E not on a ward though is it

 

[icowden]

Can I just point out that teachers may get the holidays, but they don’t get paid for being off, yet still end up marking work & prepping classes, a common fallacy that many people fall for, as I posted earlier teachers will be in at 07:30 until 18:00, then do work at home too

I did try to cover for that (my wife is a teacher!). Her staff get in at 8 and leave usually by 5pm although some days later. And yes, there is planning and marking. I think on balance the longer Nursing shifts are more difficult to manage,

 

[Alex321]

The main difference is the NHS is being set up for privatisation, ie underfund it till it’s on it’s knees, getting the general public to whinge and moan and suggest that it’s a better working system in America, then sell it off to your mates, that’s why it’s in the state it is,

Complete twaddle.

No sane person, or even significant politician, believes the American system is anywhere NEAR as good as ours.

but by front line that’s A&E not on a ward though is it

No. Front line means anybody who is directly caring for patients.

 

[winjim]

Someone's lobbed a lit match at this thread and stood well back, haven't they?

 

[Jameshow]

Ops sorry!🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[DRM]

Complete twaddle.

No sane person, or even significant politician, believes the American system is anywhere NEAR as good as ours.



No. Front line means anybody who is directly caring for patients.

No not twaddle go away and reread what I wrote, the plan is to get the public moaning about the NHS, then the government can sell to their mates, there are already people saying the American system is better, the fact that the government “twaddle“ is starting to be believed is proof of that, I for one having been in hospital and treated by the NHS know that the nurses, doctors and nursing assistants do a fantastic job , under pressure of constant cuts, I believe that the NHS needs supporting properly and it is the standard way to privatise a public service, underfund it, make sure it doesn’t work, people get angry, sell to a private company, government doesn’t pay for it anymore! That’s what’s going on, that’s what we should be getting angry about, not with the NHS, but with government who are hell bent on selling it off

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Why do pedants have to keep “correcting” everyone and tell us that gravity is a repulsive force?

 

[Tenkaykev]

No not twaddle go away and reread what I wrote, the plan is to get the public moaning about the NHS, then the government can sell to their mates, there are already people saying the American system is better, the fact that the government “twaddle“ is starting to be believed is proof of that, I for one having been in hospital and treated by the NHS know that the nurses, doctors and nursing assistants do a fantastic job , under pressure of constant cuts, I believe that the NHS needs supporting properly and it is the standard way to privatise a public service, underfund it, make sure it doesn’t work, people get angry, sell to a private company, government doesn’t pay for it anymore! That’s what’s going on, that’s what we should be getting angry about, not with the NHS, but with government who are hell bent on selling it off

Much like the lead up to the privatisation of the railways. Defund - Demotivate - Privatise.
A quote from the independent cross party fact checker :
https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-does-government-subsidise-railways/

The Railways Act passed in November 1993 allowed passenger railway services to be franchised. Data from the time before privatisation only goes back to 1985/86.

In the five years to 1991/92 (ending the year before the act was passed) the average government subsidy per year was £1.7 billion. The most recent five year average to 2017/18 was about three times more than that at £5.3 billion, which is equivalent to a 212% increase (or tripling). These are both in 2017/18 prices.

So the taxpayers subsidies to the Train Operating companies goes into helping subsidise the European state run rail companies.

 

[colly]

Much like the lead up to the privatisation of the railways. Defund - Demotivate - Privatise.
A quote from the independent cross party fact checker :
https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-does-government-subsidise-railways/

The Railways Act passed in November 1993 allowed passenger railway services to be franchised. Data from the time before privatisation only goes back to 1985/86.

In the five years to 1991/92 (ending the year before the act was passed) the average government subsidy per year was £1.7 billion. The most recent five year average to 2017/18 was about three times more than that at £5.3 billion, which is equivalent to a 212% increase (or tripling). These are both in 2017/18 prices.

So the taxpayers subsidies to the Train Operating companies goes into helping subsidise the European state run rail companies.

Not wanting to deny what you are saying but when the railways were 'owned' by the taxpayer they were kept going with public funds.
Is that not a subsidy ? And the trains, carriages, stations and permanent way were bloody awful. They may be far from perfect (especially outside of the London bubble) but they are still better than they were.

 

[Alex321]

No not twaddle go away and reread what I wrote, the plan is to get the public moaning about the NHS, then the government can sell to their mates, there are already people saying the American system is better, the fact that the government “twaddle“ is starting to be believed is proof of that, I for one having been in hospital and treated by the NHS know that the nurses, doctors and nursing assistants do a fantastic job , under pressure of constant cuts, I believe that the NHS needs supporting properly and it is the standard way to privatise a public service, underfund it, make sure it doesn’t work, people get angry, sell to a private company, government doesn’t pay for it anymore! That’s what’s going on, that’s what we should be getting angry about, not with the NHS, but with government who are hell bent on selling it off

I stand completely by what I said.

For some reason totally unsupported by any evidence, you have decided there is a "plan" to sell off the NHS.

And you cite "constant cuts" as one reason, when there have actually been no cuts at all. In real terms, NHS core funding has RISEN in every one of the last 15 years except 2020/21 (and the total spend was a lot higher even in that year if you include COVID spending).

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

These "cuts" are twaddle, and so is the idea that there is a "plan".

Admittedly, the needs of the NHS also rise faster than inflation, due to a combination of factors - new treatments, which are often expensive, and ageing population, so more people needing treatments, etc. And there will alays be a shortage of funds for some things.

 

[newfhouse]

government doesn’t pay for it anymore

The government continues to pay for it but the money is extracted by the usual unaccountable middlemen and contract holders that proceed to do a worse job and also provide inferior pay, conditions, and pensions for their workers.

 

[lazybloke]

Why do spiders like my bike?

They can ride 4 x the distance of humans before their legs tire