Pro compulsion

[david k]

You are clearly not familiar with the hierarchy of control in risk management in which PPE is the last resort.

but not ignored

first choice is always to eliminate, in many cases this is not possible. In terms of falling from a bike , i dont see how the risk can be eliminated. If you can please share your wisdom

 

[ufkacbln]

never ever ever have i said we should not train children. Wearing a helmet does not mean you should not train children. Wearing a helmet doesnt mean all other safety precautions can be ignorered. I have never said this or illuded to it. Any suggestion that i have is your assumption and incorrect at that. I think we all know why he makes this up, hence my reply, keep trying

Makes what up?

I would appreciate just for once if you could substantiate one of your weird accusations.

Please refer to the post that you are alluding to here?

 

[ianrauk]

How about a straight answer to a straight question

Do you think that it is a good thing to insist that children have and wear a helmet before you give them cycle training? Your answer will need to be given in the knowledge that to do so reduces the number taking the training and that for those thus denied training makes them more likely to be involved in a collision on the road?

never ever ever have i said we should not train children. Wearing a helmet does not mean you should not train children. Wearing a helmet doesnt mean all other safety precautions can be ignorered. I have never said this or illuded to it. Any suggestion that i have is your assumption and incorrect at that. I think we all know why he makes this up, hence my reply, keep trying

I take it that's a no then?

 

[david k]

This is rather interesting. Last time it became obvious that compulsion was detrimental, we had a mysterious agreement not to discuss the matter in the main threads, but to only discuss it here.

Now we have a compulsion thread and the matter is being avoided completely.

Why are we not getting an answer to the question whether it is acceptable to diminish the effect of training and prevention by instituting PPE as the first measure and not the last?

Perhaps I was right in the first place and this thread was an attempt to avoid the matter, one that has come home to roost!

Show me where you aksed me this question before this post. Simple answer is you didnt yet you suggest you did and i avoided. Also, i never illuded to this yet you suggest that with your underlying tones. Just because some place makes a decision has nothing to do with me. Just because i wear a helmet does not mean that you can question their decision with me, why dont you ask them?????

 

[david k]

I was just asking a question actually, not trying anything. If you want to take this in the direction of "I never said that" or "That's just your inference" well suit your self. All I wanted to know was which you felt was the more important, helmet or training.

I wouldnt like to say one or the other as i would encourage both, suggesting otherwise could have an adverse affect on the other

 

[david k]

A person might. I remain optimistic that we can reach an understanding.

dont confuse not liking my answer with not getting one


do you propose stopping people wearing helmets and forcing them to do training? same question opposite way round

 

[Red Light]

never ever ever have i said we should not train children. Wearing a helmet does not mean you should not train children. Wearing a helmet doesnt mean all other safety precautions can be ignorered. I have never said this or illuded to it. Any suggestion that i have is your assumption and incorrect at that. I think we all know why he makes this up, hence my reply, keep trying

That wasn't an answer to the question as I read it. Lets try again. If a child is not going to attend training if you insist on them wearing a helmet do you think they should be allowed to train without a helmet or only allowed to train with a helmet, even if that means they don't get trained?

 

[david k]

That is the whole point of the question, one is having an adverse effect on the other.

and the whole point of my answer is it shouldnt

 

[david k]

That wasn't an answer to the question as I read it. Lets try again. If a child is not going to attend training if you insist on them wearing a helmet do you think they should be allowed to train without a helmet or only allowed to train with a helmet, even if that means they don't get trained?

if i made a rule of making children wear a helmet or no training i would provide one for those without

 

[david k]

I take it that's a no then?

and whats your view ianauk

 

[ianrauk]

and whats your view ianauk

My view daid K?
Let kids train without helmet's if they wish.. quite simple really.

 

[ufkacbln]

Show me where you aksed me this question before this post. Simple answer is you didnt yet you suggest you did and i avoided.

Try the previous posts on this thread?

Like the one where you (wrongly) claimed I was claiming that PPE and training were mutually exclusive?

Also, the one after that?

i never illuded to this yet you suggest that with your underlying tones.

Your erroneous interpretation, not what was posted - a continuing problem

Just because some place makes a decision has nothing to do with me. Just because i wear a helmet does not mean that you can question their decision with me, why dont you ask them?????

Another weird response.... where did this come from, could you point out where any reference has been made to whether you wear a helmet or not?

This has not been raised as an issue anywhere on this thread and is frankly entirely irrelevant

The reason you were asked is because it was a logical (to most people) progression of your previous post about PPE such as

no problem, any ppe will never decrease accidents, their aim is to protect in case of an accident

 

[Red Light]

if i made a rule of making children wear a helmet or no training i would provide one for those without

You are desperately avoiding answering the question. Training or helmet, which are you going for. Its an either/or choice.

 

[ufkacbln]

if i made a rule of making children wear a helmet or no training i would provide one for those without

You are still excluding those who do not wish to wear a helmet though, and depriving them of that training.

 

[ufkacbln]

Makes what up?

I would appreciate just for once if you could substantiate one of your weird accusations.

Please refer to the post that you are alluding to here?

Care to actually answer this one, having made an allegation at least have the courtesy to identify what has been "made up"